Ferrari engine failures caused by pneumatic leaks

[010010011010]

What is different from last years lump that is making them blow up? Nobody else is having these issues... not even the new Cosworth... once again clear proof that Ferrari is cheating and was cheating over the entire winter... and the FIA looks the other way.

If they are leaking air they should be forced to mount a bigger air tank, and not be allowed to make internal changes to the engine. It is absurd that they are allowed to tear up the rules every time their spaghetti management makes a decision that puts them at a disadvantage.

Fyi, the issue was deemed a reliability problem which is a legal reason for making a change

Cheating yeah?
I take your not a fearrai fan

[010010011010]

There is no point answering that is there.
IC car engines have been obsolete since the first electric car.
It is only vested interest that has kept them going.

Not to go back off topic, but electric cars were invented before petrol cars making you once again incorrect

[WhiteBlue]

There is no point answering that is there.
IC car engines have been obsolete since the first electric car.
It is only vested interest that has kept them going.

Not to go back off topic, but electric cars were invented before petrol cars making you once again incorrect

http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http ... s%3Disch:1

It is correct that electric drive was earlier than the ICUs. For some time the best solution was hybrid until transmissions, gearboxes and more powerful engines were invented.

[autogyro]

Sorry but my statement about ICEs becoming obsolete as soon as electric vehicles were invented, is a true statement. It does not make any difference when ICEs were invented, before or after electric vehicles.
It is you who have not understood the post.
Your comment stated that I was wrong 'yet again'.
Would it be within your grasp of communication on this 'engineering forum' to give further details of my previous 'wrong' statements, with logical corrections please.

[lebesset]

http://en.espnf1.com/sauber/motorsport/story/16110.html

I rather had the impression that customers had to be supplied with the identical engine as used by the team
if this is so , how can ferrari be able to use the modified engine in barcelona if sauber aren't getting them , and what about TR ?

[ISLAMATRON]

Ferrari are cheaters plain and simple... how many times do they have to cheat for people to actually recognize the truth

EDIT:Yes, they are cheaters but that article does not really add to their long list of offences... its just the PeDLeR saying he does not think that his team will get the fix in time... they got the engines sometimes back, but they would have to ship them back to Ferrari for them to fix the promblem

This does not change the fact that it was wrong forthe FIA to allow Ferrari to change the internals of their motor to fix a problem that Ferrari clearly created while trying to flout the engine freeze rules this winter.

No other tem ishaving this problem "due" to the shorterpit stops so it is clear that Ferrari --- up while trying to cheat... so why bail them out now... complete BS

[xpensive]

I suggest that you both stop that useless argument. It annoys to read this when we come back to read about the Ferrari engine failures. Can you please conduct your personal business by PMs!

And now look who's talking mounted on a high horse?

[mx_tifoso]

I'll me moving the off topic posts about language edumucation to the off topic thread. Your contributions are greatly appreciated.

[autogyro]

Ferrari are cheaters plain and simple... how many times do they have to cheat for people to actually recognize the truth

EDIT:Yes, they are cheaters but that article does not really add to their long list of offences... its just the PeDLeR saying he does not think that his team will get the fix in time... they got the engines sometimes back, but they would have to ship them back to Ferrari for them to fix the promblem

This does not change the fact that it was wrong forthe FIA to allow Ferrari to change the internals of their motor to fix a problem that Ferrari clearly created while trying to flout the engine freeze rules this winter.

No other tem ishaving this problem "due" to the shorterpit stops so it is clear that Ferrari --- up while trying to cheat... so why bail them out now... complete BS

I see what you mean now. Previously I was thinking it only fair to allow a team to sort an engine problem if it was an obvious reliability problem.
You make it very plain that if Ferrari needs to make repairs, why dont the other teams using what should be the same engine. It cannot be anything other than a cheat that caused their problem. This demands an objection from the other teams.

[ISLAMATRON]

I see what you mean now. Previously I was thinking it only fair to allow a team to sort an engine problem if it was an obvious reliability problem.
You make it very plain that if Ferrari needs to make repairs, why dont the other teams using what should be the same engine. It cannot be anything other than a cheat that caused their problem. This demands an objection from the other teams.

Everyone is running what is supposed to be the same frozen engine as last year(except for the cossie runners), yet nobody else is suffering due to "shorter pit stops"... even if Ferrari did add compressed air to their cars during pit stops since the engine freeze came about they should have fitted a bigger tank for it this year... but not be allowed to change the internals of the lump.

Ferrari were clearly behind in power, fuel consumption & even cooling requirements to the Merc lump last year and whatever "reliability" changes they did this winter have obviously caught them out, but unfortunatly the FIA has bailed them out.... again.

Any word of the "upgrades" Renault were upposed to be allowed again this year?

Good God I hope Alonso blows up while leading on the last lap sunday... ultimate justice.

[hollus]

Alonso blowing up in the last lap would have a bit of poetic justice to it, but make me very sad. The guy already broke in the penultimate lap once... let rather be the Bulk who blows the lump this time.
I don't think the problem was as simple as a pneumatic leak (and Alonso said so much to the spanish press). At least not one caused by shorter pit stops. Ferrari are one-stopping for about all their dry races, it it were only that, they could simply stop for 3 seconds longer, like last year, to replenish the nitrogen. I doubt they would be allowed to touch the engine if it could be fixed with 3 more seconds at a stop.
Is't there anywhere a list of what reliability fixed were actually allowed, like for parc ferme modifications?

[xpensive]

Alonso blowing up in the last lap would have a bit of poetic justice to it, but make me very sad. The guy already broke in the penultimate lap once... let rather be the Bulk who blows the lump this time.
I don't think the problem was as simple as a pneumatic leak (and Alonso said so much to the spanish press). At least not one caused by shorter pit stops. Ferrari are one-stopping for about all their dry races, it it were only that, they could simply stop for 3 seconds longer, like last year, to replenish the nitrogen. I doubt they would be allowed to touch the engine if it could be fixed with 3 more seconds at a stop.
Is't there anywhere a list of what reliability fixed were actually allowed, like for parc ferme modifications?

Two things there, first of all, what does Alonso know about the engine and what is he supposed to say? Secondly, the abilitity to refill the nitrogen tank depends a little on how much you leak, doesn't it? Reducing internal friction is one of the very few development potential left for the engine, why I'm leaning on Ferrari secretly trying to optimize the 32 reciprocating pneumatic seals at 30 Hz and perhaps went a step too far for the longer run?

[ISLAMATRON]

Alonso covering up more team indescretions... or more likly he not know a bit of what is truly wrong with the engine... and if it was in regards to off season cheating they would be smart not to tell him... plausible deniability... its not like he could help fix the problem anyway. alonso has no real reason to know what is truly wrong with the engines... but we do have the reports from Sauber

[xpensive]

Alonso covering up more team indescretions... or more likly he not know a bit of what is truly wrong with the engine... and if it was in regards to off season cheating they would be smart not to tell him... plausible deniability... its not like he could help fix the problem anyway. alonso has no real reason to know what is truly wrong with the engines... but we do have the reports from Sauber

What do you know islam, we can agree on something? Fascinating indeed.

[alelanza]

To me the most likely explanation is they are running it so lean for economy purposes, last year they could use a lot more fuel to cool that engine, plus two cool charges per race should have helped some. I've seen Alonso looking for clean air in the middle of a straight too many times in these few races, especially Bahrain.

Ferrari secretly trying to optimize the 32 reciprocating pneumatic seals at 30 Hz and perhaps went a step too far for the longer run?

What's this thing about the frequency of the seals? i don't know much about pneumatic springing.