Will Williams F1 ever get back?

[hellworks]

Unless they get their car working this year so that they consistently get in the top 8 then they will have further problems raising sponsorship for next year. The FW32 has shown itself to be the very worst car Williams have built - reliable but slow. Even the Judd engined FW12 managed second places after modifications.
Does anyone have any ideas as to why the design team of Williams has produced 6 years of poor cars?

[xpensive]

A lack of funding coupled to two single-minded ageing men, both refusing to let go of power and technical influence.

I'm sure Sam Michael is a good man as a spokesperson or whatever, but a technical director?

[pgj]

I don't know about the FW32 being the worst car that Williams ever built. It is underdeveloped, but it is a bit too early to say that it is the worst one ever.

Williams' finances are a concern and they will continue to be so long as the present run of form and results continues. Sauber and Williams being team working with smaller budgets are being hit particularly hard by having to cope with an engine change with the present testing restrictions. It will probably catch other teams out in the future too.

Unless CFD and wind tunnel work is absolutely spot-on there is no room for ironing wrinkles out any more in testing. I have no idea what the problem is at Williams or how to fix it. The truth is that no-one outside the team knows the answer to that. Clearly, there is something wrong and the sooner the problem is fixed to better.

[timbo]

Unless CFD and wind tunnel work is absolutely spot-on there is no room for ironing wrinkles out any more in testing. I have no idea what the problem is at Williams or how to fix it. The truth is that no-one outside the team knows the answer to that. Clearly, there is something wrong and the sooner the problem is fixed to better.

It is clear that design team needs reshuffle. Someone has to check their windtunnel and CFD calibration too.
Year after year we see basically the same situation -- early promising test results and no progress during the season.
Even FI managed to jump ahead!
I also remember reading that majority of their finances goes to personnel fees. They are simply too big for their current resources.

[pgj]

Without doubt there is something awry at Williams. How it is possible to say whether the fault lies in one person, one area or whether it is more widespread and deep-rooted with any degree of certainty is not clear. Williams has seen some talented people pass through its ranks without improvement. I am loathe to see the same thing happen again. I would have liked to see Ross or Adrian return to the team. Both have the experience and clout to root out the problem and put the team back on an even development keel.

Having a bigger budget is no guarantee of success. If the team is not functioning then it just wastes more money at a greater speed. Toyota and Honda are examples of that. Many comparisons are made with Williams. Williams reminds me very much of Ferrari through late 70's until Ross, JT and Schumi joined and shook things up. Williams does not have anywhere near the amount of time that Ferrari was in the doldrums for. It does not have the financial clout behind it that Ferrari has.

Just an observation. IIRC Williams has not really got the best out if its second super-dooper wind tunnel. Wasn't it blamed for much of the aero misfiring in the latter years of the BMW partnership? I certainly remember it having to be recalibrated because it was not carried out correctly.

[xpensive]

FW recently turned 68 and Patrick will be 65 this summer, think about it, the team won't last much longer in this shape anyway.
Ken Tyrrell was a sad xample how you might end up if you try to hang in there for too long, something radical will happen soon.

[timbo]

Williams does not have anywhere near the amount of time that Ferrari was in the doldrums for. It does not have the financial clout behind it that Ferrari has.

Well if you think about it, Ferrari rarely was in such "deep" doldrums, e.g. between 1979 and 2000 they were out of top-5 teams only once. Of course Ferrari didn't have problems with money as much as Williams does now.

[pgj]

I was not thinking so much about WCC performances. The team was dysfunctional and it was an unedifying experience watching the team making up the numbers in terms of race wins.

[hellworks]

Well changes will happen soon because as has been said both Frank and Patrick are slowly relinquishing their direct control - Toto Wolff has bought into the company now and I am sure that as time progresses more shares will be sold. It is possible that VW may come in with Toto but the fundamental issue seems to be aero performance.
Barcelona saw new diffuser,new gearbox,front wing endplates, front flap actuation, sidepods,mirror mounting etc.. yet performance seemed worse against its competitors - if all this made little difference then there is something fundamentally wrong with the chassis stiffness or underfloor performance or basic geometry.
To fade away like Tyrrell would be a travesty for this team as it produces neat reliable cars - just no performance!

[autogyro]

Engine?

[WhiteBlue]

The fish stinks from the Head.

[xpensive]

The fish stinks from the Head.

I've said it before, but the liasion with BMW was the chance of a lifetime for FW and PH, letting them go was unforgiveable.

The status and kudos among sposors were absolutely priceless, Toyotas were not even comparable, that chance will never return.

[donskar]

I think a comparison between Williams and McLaren is very revealing to this argument. If you think about it, Williams and McLaren shared very similar backgrounds, basically garagist beginnings moving into shrewd dealings in the morning of the sponsorship age. Both teams had success during the eighties and nineties, yet, here and now, McLaren stand on the verge of another championship and Williams seem to be sinking fast even though they showed such good promise last season. So what happened?

Well, for me the bottom line in F1 is funding. This is motor racing where investment is key and Ron Dennis simply attracted and held onto more. And perhaps the loss of BMW from Williams to Sauber when McLaren held on dearly to Mercedes was the key shift. F1 teams needed those big funds behind them during the last decade and Williams had lost their honey pot. It's a bit strange, because for me, Williams continues to have massive brand value, akin to that which Brawn produced last season. There is an innate Britishness about Williams that is not traded on well by the team. Yet McLaren is a massive marketing machine, that makes it's own brand stand out and keep corporate partnership well.

So, perhaps, the most important reason behind this divergence was the tragic loss of Bruce McLaren. When Ron Dennis took over McLaren, he knew he had a business. When he employed Whitmarsh, he knew he was getting a businessman. Frank Williams, on the other hand, is a racer; he wants to be part of the structure and he wants people around him that he knows and loves. And I think it's that slight difference in focus that has allowed Ron Dennis to keep McLaren's funding streams wide open, while Williams keep missing tricks along the way. If Frank had turned Williams into the brand it aught to be and sold it to BMW, I think the situation would be a lot different today. And I think if Williams is to survive, Frank and Patrick need to retire and let it go so that it can be dynamic enough, and well funded enough, to compete again.

Excellent post, horse. For me, the key points are:
1) McLaren is a business, whose product is positive exposure for their sponsors and partners
2) McLaren has built a brand visible to the general public (think about the exposure they got through their fantastic engineering center and through their road car activities). Williams, on the other hand, is still visible to racing fans like us -- but a comparatively much smaller group.
3) Frank and Patrick are the wrong people for this time and place

[donskar]

Without doubt there is something awry at Williams. How it is possible to say whether the fault lies in one person, one area or whether it is more widespread and deep-rooted with any degree of certainty is not clear. Williams has seen some talented people pass through its ranks without improvement. I am loathe to see the same thing happen again. I would have liked to see Ross or Adrian return to the team. Both have the experience and clout to root out the problem and put the team back on an even development keel.

Having a bigger budget is no guarantee of success. If the team is not functioning then it just wastes more money at a greater speed. Toyota and Honda are examples of that. Many comparisons are made with Williams. Williams reminds me very much of Ferrari through late 70's until Ross, JT and Schumi joined and shook things up. Williams does not have anywhere near the amount of time that Ferrari was in the doldrums for. It does not have the financial clout behind it that Ferrari has.

Just an observation. IIRC Williams has not really got the best out if its second super-dooper wind tunnel. Wasn't it blamed for much of the aero misfiring in the latter years of the BMW partnership? I certainly remember it having to be recalibrated because it was not carried out correctly.

pgj, good post, but I want to comment on one statement that you just happened to repeat -- not a direct commnet on you or your post at all: "Having a bigger budget is no guarantee of success."

[RANT] Of course that's true, BUT, I think it's even more true that a smaller budget is no guarantee of success. A smaller budget means you have to take chances on less experienced (and cheaper) people at all levels, in all roles. It means you might have to forego the more expensive (and lighter or stronger) materials in order to save money. I don't think I need to belabor the point.

Other posters would like us to believe that small budget necessarily = greater innovation. BS. Innovations often come from the big teams -- DDD, for example (Honda, Toyota, [and Williams, less successfully]). The F duct was originated by Mclaren, and very quickly copied by other big teams -- Ferrari and Merc, with RBR close behind.

Need more examples of "big = innovations"? The now-standard auto gearbox was first successfully implemented by Ferrari, under the very big bucks designer, John Barnard. And he originated the carbon tub in F1 -- at Mclaren.[/RANT]

[rich1701]

Frank Williams recently said his team was hurting because of no manufactuer support, I almost get the impression Williams feels this is the only way to achieve sucesss. Granted 10 years ago it certainly would of been but in the current f1 climate with apparent engine parity it simply is not the case. Therefore it is not a barrier to achieve high performance like it used to be.

Perhaps frank was referring to the future where having manufacturer support in preparation for the new engine regs would be an advantage.

But look at lotus, they have momentum and clearly are a team moving forward admittedly from a low base. But you can see their technical team under Mike Gascoigne is energized and driven. Williams seem to be in technical stagnation and Frank needs to realize he will never attract VW with the team performing the way it has been in the past 5 years. he can no longer rely on the reputation of past glory days that attracted BMW.

Patrick head needs to be kicked upstairs to allow Sam Michael free reign I feel. I don't know to what degree Michael has been suppressed if at all or how talented he really is. The team needs a firm technical direction focused on aerodynamics and not things like useless fly wheels and golf clubs.