When do you own the racing line?

[WhiteBlue]

WB, can you do a shot by shot of the Hamilton/Vettel for comparison please?

All is well but Di Grassi looms ahead.



Hamilton takes a precautionary detour around Di Grassi.




Di Grassi evades towards the inside.



More of the same. Di Grassi evades onto the curb.Vettel is ahead but cannot get on the racing line.



Di Grassi almost leaves the track. Vettel ahead.



Both cars have passed Di Grassi with Vettel still ahead coming towards the apex.




At the apex Vettel is still ahead.




Now Vettel looses momentum and Hamilton profits from the shorter line.



Hamilton stays on the racing line and moves outwards. It looks to me like Hamilton was feeding too much power and kicks his rear wheels outside.



Vettel forced to run on the run off.




Hamilton pulling ahead on track.

My impression of this action was that Hamilton earlier got on or close to the racing line for T1 which forced Vettel to go around the outside. During the acceleration out of T1 apex Hamilton put the power down earlier and let the back end drift towards Vettel on the outside. He squeezed him more than he needed to stay on the racing line but that is hard racing. Vettel could have probably stayed on track but did not want to risk a collision. So Hamilton got the line for T2 as well and Vettel later joined behind him.

[roost89]

While watching this on TV. I think Lewis took the wrong action in taking the line. However on looking at this. I see it was his only real option (with racing in mind).

Vettel did leave the door wide open. Unless his normal line is wide into T1 (I've seen the RB's taking different lines compared to the rest of the pack) then he left too much space for Lewis to get in. By the 4th picture Lewis has the racing line and on the 3rd Seb has gone off of the racing line (looked like he was going to do that in the 2nd one as well)
I think that Seb got taken partly by surprise, I don't think he was expecting Lewis to simply take the corner with as much speed as he did, nor maintain his line and effectively push Seb off the road.

Basically, fair cop by lewis there. Vettel let him through

[autogyro]

I cannot see what Di Grasse was supposed to do, he had nowhere to go, so Hamilton had no reason to criticise him IMO.

[DaveKillens]

A racing driver, especially a professional driver, is expected to capitalize on any and all opportunities and to be aggressive.

The pass was clean, but forceful.

I suggest that some people watch other forms of racing so that they can realize that racing is a competition, not a procession.

[WhiteBlue]

I think I will come back to this thread whenever there is a disputed maneuver over the racing line. I usually have digital copies of the sessions and will post pictures.

Feel free to use this thread as well for in depth analysis of passes and failed passes.

[Shrieker]

I think Schumacher did nothing wrong against Button. Jenson was too soft. He just had to move more to the left (from the drivers point of view) and upset MS corner entry a little more.

To me, the pictures WB posted for each situation (MS vs. JB & LH vs. SV) proves the absolute difference between LH and JB.

[ISLAMATRON]

Button is softer than baby poo... actually that should be his new nickname.

To repeat myself... passing, just like defending, is more about positioning your car than outright speed. Because it is a right/left complex the inside car at turn 1 has the advantage until it turns left(and then it goes long right at turn 3... but most battles are done by then). When you have the inside line you must dictate positioning... and sometimes that requires bravery... something JB clearly lacks.

To be a little bit fairer to JB, MS came into that corner with alot more speed and I dont see any way JB could have really come out ahead of him,unless he somehow forced MS off track. But we know how MS relishes contact.

Vettel bailed out, He could have stood his ground and stayed online but for some reason he chose to bail out... HAmilton seemed to have given him fair racing room but for some reason Vettel turned to the left mid corner. WB, you say HAmilton's rear slid out, but Vettel would not have been able to see that anyway... I didnt see it... not until after turn 2 then I saw Hamilton correct. But Hamilton did establish position after turn 1 and going into turn 2, by positioning his car at the precise moment when he was slightly ahead so as to give Vettel pause.


Now on to Di Grassi, in the pic it shows him onthe kerb and trying to get out of the way... looks like he did what he should have... but when you watch the video you can see that he slowed down nearly to a stand still before he got to the kerb... it is very dangerous to slow to such rediculously low speeds while other cars are diving into the corner.

[Pandamasque]

When I first replied to this topic it had just a title and a bunch of freeze frames. So I basically replied if they had the racing line to themselves

How fair were the overtaking manoeuvres? Not sure really. The pictures can't tell the full story. Button said that Schumi moved towards him. Probably he did. How dangerous that was and would they collide if Button kept it straight we'll never know, not with the available footage surely.

In case of Vettel it seems that he had a huge advantage having the inside line into T2 and being ahead. Hamilton would just have to back off to get into T3 properly, but Vettel just moved over. At least so it seemed from the TV pictures.

[Remote_Access]

How fair were the overtaking manoeuvres? Not sure really.

Are you joking? Neither incident involved contact or retirement and you're wondering whether they were fair? What would you prefer to see happening in formula one: drivers waving one another past? "After you seb" "oh, quite the contrary lewis, after you!"

"ladies first... I insist"

[WhiteBlue]

Vettel bailed out, He could have stood his ground and stayed online but for some reason he chose to bail out... HAmilton seemed to have given him fair racing room but for some reason Vettel turned to the left mid corner. WB, you say HAmilton's rear slid out, but Vettel would not have been able to see that anyway... I didnt see it... not until after turn 2 then I saw Hamilton correct.

I pretty much agree with you here. I think I saw Hamilton get harder on the power and his rear end move, but it was rather subtle. I guess if Schumacher had been in Vettel's position he would have stayed on track, knowing Hamilton would have to give room. One can only guess what caused Vettel to exit the track. He may have been a bit shaken with way they went three cars abreast into turn one. Perhaps his turn one strategy at the start was to be conservative and make sure he took points from the race and he fell into that pattern when the corner was crowded.

[Pandamasque]

How fair were the overtaking manoeuvres? Not sure really.

Are you joking?

You didn't read the whole post.

[autogyro]

In proper close racing on the short ovals, there are two kinds of racing, 'contact' and 'non contact'.
Simple realy, the rest is for little girls blouses.

[Miguel]

I own the racing line. The other cars are just those pesky sunday drivers whose only goal is killing my joy.

EDIT: Now, seriously. IMHO, Di Grassi was too slow for a safe thing. Michael did fine, as did Hamilton. I got the impression while watching the race that, before using the runoff, Vettel had some oversteering. During the replay I don't recall seeing any countersteering, though.

[010010011010]

IMHO, Di Grassi was too slow for a safe thing.

Yeah I agree. He misjudged it and backed off too soon. He should have taken turn 1 and just kept very wide on 2, as opposed to parking on the apex of 1.

Then again the mirrors can be misleading and I doubt any of us would have done any better if we saw two of the leaders neck and neck into the corner behind us.

[nipo]

IMHO, Di Grassi was too slow for a safe thing.

Yeah I agree. He misjudged it and backed off too soon. He should have taken turn 1 and just kept very wide on 2, as opposed to parking on the apex of 1.

Then again the mirrors can be misleading and I doubt any of us would have done any better if we saw two of the leaders neck and neck into the corner behind us.

That's why I think the team needs to do a better job at telling the driver what's happening behind them... or abolish blue flags altogether.