Should the T-car come back to F1?

[Just_a_fan]

Perhaps a T-tub so that the team bolts the original drive train to it. If the drive train is damaged then they take the usual penalty.

Of course, the new / small teams might not be able to afford a fully kitted up T-tub which would place them at a disadvantage.

My view is, no - they shouldn't bring back the T-car unless Ferrari et al are prepared to fund HRT et al's T-cars etc.

Would this poll have been started if HRT or Lotus had stuffed a chassis in FP? Is it just because a "big name" did it?

[WhiteBlue]

Race team personal has been reduced to 45 persons by the RRA. That means they do not have a third team of mechanics for the T-car. They can as well leave it in a truck instead of compromising the valuable space in the garages.

You dont need a third team of mechanics. Just to have an assembled T-car in a bigger box than that of the chasis box.

I havn't said that you need a third team of mechanics, only that it was the norm in the old days and now you don't have the same level of resources. So the sensible thing is having a to a certain degree pre assembled chassis available on site. We basically agree on this. What I think excessive is the return to the T-cars of old, say 2004.

WhiteBlue, a little tip, if you are really interested in what people think and not just pushing your own agenda, you really should try to make the poll a bit more neutral, ie remove "We cannot have the favorites out of qualifying whatever it costs."

Obviously some people have selected the option. So it must make some sense to have it there. The wording always is a bit influenced by what we think but the options seem to be clear enough.

[imightbewrong]

Edit: Removed offtopic post and posted it in F10 thread instead

[ringo]

Can somebody please tell me what a T car is?
It's mentioned in every post, and yet there are no indications as to what it is.

T could be: tool, team, twin, test, tow, ...?

[WhiteBlue]

Some years ago rich teams had a third car called the T-car which they either gave to their #1 driver or shared between the drivers (usually who ever was faster in qualifying).

T-cars used to be fully set up and sometimes top drivers decided only after several exploratory laps on race day which chassis they were going to use. A classic example was Schumacher deciding sometimes to have the T-car on wet setup and making the decision on the last lap before the pit lane closure.

[spinmastermic]

I believe the T stands for Training Car. In most teams it was set up for each driver at alternate events. Preferance was givin to a home drivers race.

[marcush.]

deleting t-cars is in my view not cutting cost very much .So why not allow a change of tub as well ,they have the parts anyways.
If I have no money to have a spare it does not matter if it´s allowed or not.Virgin will not compete for points tghis year anyways...and if the price for a Virgin (!) is less than a Bugatti Veyron according to Nick Wirth ...so what?

[flynfrog]

deleting t-cars is in my view not cutting cost very much .So why not allow a change of tub as well ,they have the parts anyways.
If I have no money to have a spare it does not matter if it´s allowed or not.Virgin will not compete for points tghis year anyways...and if the price for a Virgin (!) is less than a Bugatti Veyron according to Nick Wirth ...so what?

they only cost difference I can see is that they save on shipping container size. They still drag all of the parts along.

[piast9]

Is it banned to have a tub with front suspension on it in the truck?

[ESPImperium]

Banned for a reason. The reason being costs. It may cost the same to lug arround all the same ammount of gear that a T-Car would have assembled on it in both Europe and fly-away races, but the simple fact of the matter is that it actually costs F1 teams more to have the third set of Mechanics and engineers for that car.

If you take it as this for a mid feild team, per car;
* 9-12 mechanics per car
* 5-8 general mechanics in each garrage
* 5-9 data engineers for the drive train per car (part funded for customer teams by engine manufacturer)
* 7-12 data engineers for the rest of the car

The main cost is getting staff to cover each car, whitch is arround 30 minimum per team. Add in the cost of getting people to the track, this is where the costs have been cut from 2008 figures.

The goal is for each team to have no more than 30 people covering both cars at any GP, excluding team management (people on pit wall essencially), PR staff and hospitality people as well.

Its starting to cut this year as drivers are only allowed one designated person in the garrage, pits and grid. This means girlfriends and other people have to be left behind as its better for them to have their physio in those areas. Red Bull have just found a way arround this by having the physio do a legitimate job in the team, whitch is the lap board guy, meaning that Seb and Mark can get someone else in with that pass.

Resource caps are starting to come in, and cut. Having a T-Car would be nonsence in the current climate. If they could get a F1 car to the point where each car only needed 5 or 6 mechanics and a simmilar ammount of data engineers, thats where i think teams would be allowed T-Cars again.

But essencially i think T-Cars are a product of a by-gone era in the sport.

[Sean H]

I believe a full spare car should be allowed, just no extra mechanics. Like was mentioned, they are already bringing all those components already, why not just bring them assembled? Or be allowed to assemble them while doing the other 2 cars? Just don't allow a team to switch back and forth, once the T car is selected, that's it, no switching back to the primary car.

[Paul]

Extra components they bring are used as spares. If a driver damages his rear wing, you aren't going to screw it off the T-car. Which means you will have to manufacture and bring additional parts.

[marcush.]

you only allow use of the spare but no additional staff ,simple as that.the car (apart from liz and virginia of courrse)have no names written onit ...so it should be no problem for the mechanics...as most of the time the things are under parc ferme ruling anyways.So no extra work for the mechs really.
There were times when the spare just was there to cater for these special moments.Don´t worry ,it will run ..no matter how many guys are standing around it.

[Ciro Pabón]

Typical Ferrari, they only care about certain rules only if it isn't convinient for them. How about telling your drivers not to crash in free practice? That should be easy enough.

Unlike the other teams, composed of angels, directed by saints, driven by immortals, sponsored by philanthropists. Thank heavens we have new members that are able to see beyond their noses: if you did not tell us that some teams (some? No: one! Ferrari, the mischievous team!) have interest in the rules, we wouldn't believe it. The veil of innocence finally fell from my eyes. Thank you so much, internetf1fan and welcome to the forum.

Alonso (not Alesi haha) probably crashed in free practice because he was unable to properly control the Ferrari f-duct.

Dear autogyro (not Gyro Gearloose, ha, ha!): we all know Ferrari does not use the 666 mark on top of the car: is hidden inside the F-duct. The F-duct, in turn, is hidden inside the horns of the drivers (the horns are also hidden by the helmets). No wonder they have difficulties handling it. Have you ever tried to control your car with your horns? You have? Really?

For the love of Pete, guys, you truly need me around. I apologize, I'll be back to regular posts in a couple of months.

[Ciro Pabón]

Who says the Ferrari f-duct was not used in free practice?

Alesi.