Is Hamilton desperate or what?

[andrew]

It is absurd to go againt what the team with hundreds of engineers and some weathermen with access to radar tell you... if you mistrust the teams decision making abilities that much you should find a better one. Button is no magic man, if he was he would have had more than just 1 win before last year.

That being said weather is unpredictable and teams will sometimes get it wrong.

Yet Button did it and won twice. Strange that.

And as for your 4-2 score. That is wrong. The points tell the true story. Button on 70, Hamilton on 59. As for wins, 2-0 Button. Early days but I would say that Button is ahead.

[vall]

Those wins came about with luck. Jenson looks very average in all other races, where was the intelligence and experience in the other 4?

Instead of stating the wins, you should state the points score. Lewis is down 11 points and will recover them probably by the next race. Button is done for. His shine is gone. he is looking very average now, letting 2 FI get around him , and a 41 year old owning him every race.

The way things are looking Lewis is the only driver outside of redbull who can win another race you mean. If he can't get a victory, that means only webber and vettel can win.

You make it sound as if Button will win more, when he can't qualify past 5th or 8th.
Redbull is the only thing stopping Hamilton from being champion. If anything I think Lewis still can pull this one off somehow.

It can't get more biased that that

No, not really. I just can't see it. If i was biased i would say that the Mclaren in the hands of Lewis is faster than the redbulls. I was being very objective in looking at the 4 normal races. Look at the people in first 2 rows on the grid in those races, and who came on the podium.
If it's not a redbull, it's Alonso or Hamilton. Best of the rest is the ferarri and the Mclaren. like last year Hamliton was fifth in the championship, or you can say best of the rest to the 2redbull and 2brawn.
Looking on 2007, 2008, 2009, i wont be surprised he will be best of the rest in 2010, assuming Mclaren does not reach redbull's level. So saying redbull is stopping him is very accurate.
Redbull is stopping these 2 men from dominating. I have nothing against Button, i am quite neutral to him, but judging from what happened in the 4 normal races, i can't see why i would be biased in my observation.

I thought I underlined the relevant text, but I forgot. I did it know and you see what I mean.

Now you also mention Alonso, but before you did not. For me that looked pretty biased.

[internetf1fan]

I remember a certain Trulli beating Alonso both in points and wins in 2004 before he got sacked?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Trulli trounced Alonso.

Trulli is getting trounced by Kovalainen.

Kovalainen got trounced by Hamilton.

Can you remind me how Hamilton and Alonso fared?

Its why that system of comparing is flawed!

[vall]

Trulli trounced Alonso.

Trulli is getting trounced by Kovalainen.

Kovalainen got trounced by Hamilton.

Can you remind me how Hamilton and Alonso fared?

Its why that system of comparing is flawed!

I really enjoy the internetf1fan's enthusiastic posts on the other McLaren tread as well

[PlatinumZealot]

Trulli trounced Alonso.

Trulli is getting trounced by Kovalainen.

Kovalainen got trounced by Hamilton.

Can you remind me how Hamilton and Alonso fared?

Its why that system of comparing is flawed!

Exactly why we must go by the ass kicking that is dished out during the races and not the points when we rate the drivers. Sure more points better the chance of wining the championship but look at proof, Button won in 2009 and he is still not widely rated in the paddock.

[ringo]

I thought I underlined the relevant text, but I forgot. I did it know and you see what I mean.

Now you also mention Alonso, but before you did not. For me that looked pretty biased.

Looks like there are others with similar thoughts,

"There are two people that we fear for this World title," he told APA news agency. "They are Fernando Alonso, because he is at his absolute peak, and Lewis Hamilton. What the others are doing bothers us not so much."

Helmut Marko, redbull adbisor.

Funny he did not give a reason for Hamilton; who is nowhere near his peak as yet.

Now he could also be thinking based on the past years as well, or how his drivers have been mauled this season by Hamilton in china. I didn't mention Alonso originally because this is a Hamilton thread, and frankly Hamilton can manage Alonso when the time comes

[Remote_Access]

<insert arrogant antagonistic nonsense>

I appreciate you think you're smart, but none of what you have said has any real authority over what anyone else has said. Your interpetation of facts, your opinion, is just that. Stop painting it like you're some expert. You either want to persuade people (in which you should change your tone to be more effective) or you just want to persuade yourself.

Jenson made good calls and they were no doubt a combination of experience and luck. At Melbourne he really had no other option as he didn't have pace, and at Malaysia it was 50/50 given the weather could have gone either way. To say he is the better driver, simply because of those calls, is to dismiss the talent, pace and overall competitiveness of not just Lewis but many other drivers.

As for points score, this is only a surface measure and ignores a lot of underlying evidence that suggests Lewis is in fact the better driver. Points will come and go and sometimes the better driver will lead, sometimes they won't.

It's no secret I am a Lewis fan, but I think Jenson is doing a terrific job at McLaren and full props to him. However, I don't think he is on par with Lewis nor many of the other drivers. He is just a solid competitor who is doing well.

But I guess I say all that just to keep myself warm at night

[Hangaku]

<insert arrogant antagonistic nonsense>

I appreciate you think you're smart, but none of what you have said has any real authority over what anyone else has said. Your interpetation of facts, your opinion, is just that. Stop painting it like you're some expert. You either want to persuade people (in which you should change your tone to be more effective) or you just want to persuade yourself.

Jenson made good calls and they were no doubt a combination of experience and luck. At Melbourne he really had no other option as he didn't have pace, and at Malaysia it was 50/50 given the weather could have gone either way. To say he is the better driver, simply because of those calls, is to dismiss the talent, pace and overall competitiveness of not just Lewis but many other drivers.

As for points score, this is only a surface measure and ignores a lot of underlying evidence that suggests Lewis is in fact the better driver. Points will come and go and sometimes the better driver will lead, sometimes they won't.

It's no secret I am a Lewis fan, but I think Jenson is doing a terrific job at McLaren and full props to him. However, I don't think he is on par with Lewis nor many of the other drivers. He is just a solid competitor who is doing well.

But I guess I say all that just to keep myself warm at night

I agree.

Lots of people are eager to forget that had Lewis' car not failed in Barcelona (which was nothing to do with his ability to drive the car), he would be sitting at the top of the driver's championship table on 84 points.

[lebesset]

if's and and's ...

didn't happen
if button had finished 5th in monaco he would be leading ...didn't happen

so what ?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

And had Glock not slowed unintentionally on the final lap Massa would be champ and Lewis would be Champion-less
If it didnt happen, why make it part of your argument?

[lebesset]

that at least is wrong ...glock was going flat out on slicks ...but he was right , he gained a place !

[ringo]

And had Glock not slowed down on the final lap Massa would be champ and Lewis would be Champion-less
If it didnt happen, why make it part of your argument?

So you belived glock slowed?
I think you are trying to be provocative. This is F1 technical, you must know better than that.

I wont find excuses, the truth is Button is leading Hamilton now by 11 points. Hamilton's car failure and poor pit strategies are not enough to stop him from out driving and outscoring Button.
Button would not have got any points in monoca anyway at the rate he was going; but i digress.

I like the fact Hamilton is behind now, by purely bad luck and not driver ability. His driving cannot be blamed for his points score so far.
On the other hand, button's driving can be blamed for him not driving as well in the other 4 races he could have used to bolster his 2 wins. If he continues qualifying 8th and 7th, he will fade off into the driver standings.
As the season goes on, Hamilton will be on a rise. Button has already started his mid season down spiral. He has no answer for the redbull's, none for the ferraris, and not even the Mercedes of Rosberg.
Hamilton is on another level, he can split the redbulls. Plain and simple facts.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Its a fair point when you say his driving isnt responsible for his ill fortune.
However I remember Whitmarsh saying he was a bit hard on his tyres in Oz

In terms of Victories though, Button won and led pretty much start to finish, Has Hamilton looked like winning this year? Honest answer please

[andrew]

Its a fair point when you say his driving isnt responsible for his ill fortune.
However I remember Whitmarsh saying he was a bit hard on his tyres in Oz

In terms of Victories though, Button won and led pretty much start to finish, Has Hamilton looked like winning this year? Honest answer please

Honest answer? That'll be a no then.

As for Glock slowing down, possible. It was wet and Glock was on slicks so who knows. Wouldn't surprise me though (McLaren).

Massa is the true 2008 champion. He simply drove a better season.