Hugely Dissapointed With McLaren

[internetf1fan]

You didn't answer my question. What can FOTA do to enforce the "gentlemen's agreements" if the so called banned device is still allowed under the regulations. FOTA don't seem to be voting on regulations, but they are voting on "gentlemen's agreements". Your analogy to the parliament doesn't hold at all.

Simple, you break an agreement, you're no longer a part of FOTA.
Do you see party voting as a whole? Usually no. It's individuals who vote. But when they are members of a party they vote the same most of the time.

So not much of an enforcement apart from kicked out from a mostly symbolic group. McLaren would still happily run in F1 and FOTA teams won't be able to stop McLaren from being in F1 or using the full extent of the regulations. I see this is as a positive thing.

Where were the teams in Indy 2005? What happened to the good of the sport there? Teams act according to their own interests. Being member of FOTA didn't stop Toyota or BMW leaving F1 even though it was bad for the sport. FOTA as far as I see is symbolic.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

internetf1fan

The Formula One Teams Association (FOTA) is a group of Formula One teams that was formed at a meeting in Maranello on 29 July 2008.
Making anything before that irrelevant including Indy 2005.

Secondly you should know KERS was dropped on cost grounds. Costs that F1 teams could ill afford. More specific to your argument, MERCEDES could not afford.
So the teams agreed in view of circumstances, they would not use it in 2010 to ease the burden on all involved with F1.

Now if McLaren knew this along with Ferrari and Renault and all the others, they are in the same boat and in no way are they handicapped. Furthermore, should they break ranks with FOTA they would find not only will they not be supplied KERS by Mercedes, they would in fact also need to develop and use their own system at a cost of around £100 million.

You see, Mercedes are firmly entrenched within FOTA, so good luck getting KERS from them once you severed ties. For the sake of your own thread, give KERS a rest mate

[Giblet]

Being member of FOTA didn't stop Toyota or BMW leaving F1 even though it was bad for the sport. FOTA as far as I see is symbolic.

Nothing could have stopped Toyota or BMW or Honda from leaving. They couldn't justify the huge gobs of cash. To keep more teams from leaving, costs had to come down. The FIA and FOTA responded, albeit not on the same page or at the same time.

FOTA got rid of KERS, and helped to bring the costs of the sport down. Mclaren agrees with this stature, and is not running KERS for this reason.

You are basing all your thoughts on KERS being a huge help (it's not, as we've said) and that FOTA is useless (it's not, as we've said).

So instead of keeping on your quest to be wrong about A - KERS being a huge help and B - FOTA being useless, understand you are wrong about these two poonts that your entire argument seems to be based on.

That 2005 FOTA thing was just ridiculous. You are not being rational, or thinking before you type.

[internetf1fan]

Nothing could have stopped Toyota or BMW or Honda from leaving. They couldn't justify the huge gobs of cash.

Weren't Toyota and BMW some of the biggest opponents of Maxs budget cuts? I don't see how FOTA responded as you claim.

[wesley123]

no, as a matter off act that was ferrari. Theirs excuse was the recession so they could leave the F1 without any problems. What i could think of is that the teams just didnt agree with rules, i mean Toyota was in there because to show how they can use their technologies best, same for why Audi is running in LMP. I can understand why Toyota nd BMW left, afterall their tehcnologies arent allowed in the F1 and instead they spent thier money on nothing. Audi uses the LMP to show off with their Diesel engines, Toyota could actually show off with technology that is present in the Prius for example, to bad that it isnt allowed, then with that there isn't any reason for the teams to stay in F1. You can actually expect toyota to run in LMP for example or go somewhere else

[CHT]

What is your take on Jonathan Neale's comments?

I think one of the key reason why they managed to close the gap on the front runner last year was because non of the front runners were running KERS.

Mclaren will probably catch RBR, when RBR has decided shift their development program to 2011.



“Let’s suppose Red Bull are maybe 0.8 second or a second ahead at some circuits,” began the McLaren managing director. “Based on our own experience, we know that we closed a 2.5 second-a-lap gap between the start of the season and Hungary last year. So we’ve demonstrated that kind of gradient is doable. They have a quick car so now it’s just up to the rest of us to get the job done.

“I suspect that they won’t have that advantage all season. I think they are eminently catchable and we fully intend to do that. It’s all still to play for. At the moment Red Bull have the upper hand, but I’m confident that won’t be the case by the middle of the season.”

[autogyro]

I do not believe it is the same this year.
IMO the McLaren has very little development left in this years design.
The RB on the other hand is proving a very dynamic design and I think there are a number of ways to go with it.

[internetf1fan]

I do not believe it is the same this year.
IMO the McLaren has very little development left in this years design.
The RB on the other habd is proving a very dynamic design and I think there are a number of ways to go with it.

Exactly why McLaren needs to man up and stick a KERS in there. McLaren is the second best car out there tied with Ferrari, but if they want that second place in WCC or even fight for the title with RBR, they need to be ruthless.

[Mysticf1]

Do you honestly think they can just stick some kers in there? Larger fuel tank means space is even more hard to find now...let alone the complications of breaking the FOTA agreement...seriously give up on the idea.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I do not believe it is the same this year.
IMO the McLaren has very little development left in this years design.
The RB on the other habd is proving a very dynamic design and I think there are a number of ways to go with it.

Exactly why McLaren needs to man up and stick a KERS in there. McLaren is the second best car out there tied with Ferrari, but if they want that second place in WCC or even fight for the title with RBR, they need to be ruthless.

I give up

[wesley123]

I do not believe it is the same this year.
IMO the McLaren has very little development left in this years design.
The RB on the other habd is proving a very dynamic design and I think there are a number of ways to go with it.

Exactly why McLaren needs to man up and stick a KERS in there. McLaren is the second best car out there tied with Ferrari, but if they want that second place in WCC or even fight for the title with RBR, they need to be ruthless.

do you even read the goddamn posts? Jeez, we have done like 5 pages now and you still are with the same point wich was already stated at the first page to be impossible? Do you have your brains in your asshole or something?

THE MCLAREN CAN BE THAT TIGHT PACKAGED BECAUSE IT DOES NOT NEED KERS, KERS MIGHT GAIN THEM 3 TENTHS OF A SECOND BUT THE SAME AMOUNT OR MORE IS LOST BECAUSE THEY CANT PACKAGE EVERYTHING THAT TIGHTLY AND EXTRA COOLING, AND LETS NOT FORGET ABOUT 20KG OF LESS BELAST THEY WILL BE ABLE TO USE I hope now he understands, but i doubt it

[internetf1fan]

McLaren already sorted out the ballast issues last year so that's not going to be the problem. It might lose them some time but I can't see the harm in trying. After all, they won't win anything if they don't try something radical anyway.

[wesley123]

McLaren already sorted out the ballast issues last year so that's not going to be the problem. It might lose them some time but I can't see the harm in trying. After all, they won't win anything if they don't try something radical anyway.

No and like already said THEY WONT WIN EITHER IF THEY FIT ON KERS, but you are just too naive to even mind understanding it.

Also, where did i mind ballast issues? i said they have 20 kg less ballast to play with, guess what that will do, place the CofG higher. And also, where do you want to place it, ofr the location last year the car has to have bigger sidepods for the cooling of it, and it neds to be less tight as to fit the KERS in it.

But go ahead and be naive, you simply dont seem that smart enoguh to understand anything of what we are saying around here, so i do not even understand why you made the topic here then.

Please go away and go annoy a different forum, instead of be here, be naive and act like an complete ---, i think people here are even willing to pay to see you leave, at least i am.

[Pup]

How long will you people keep arguing with this guy? He's obviously never going to go beyond "Is, so!" in his argument. You do realize that he's probably some bored 13 year old (if that) with nothing better to do than be a forum troll, don't you?

[wesley123]

i do actually realize it, but i just love to try to piss such guys guys off