Are Ferrari in decline?

[ecapox]

Doom and gloom guys. Doom and gloom.

Like others have said, where do you go from being the top for so many years? You can only go down. I got all perfect scores on my first 10 tests in calculus, but on my 11th and 12th, i got 90% correct. Is that a decline? Yes. Is it bad? No.

The thread title says "Are Ferrari in a decline?" Three ways to look at that.

1. Are Ferrari in a decline, i.e. Are they worse off than they have always been. NO.
2. Are Ferrari in a decline, i.e. Do they suck (which is what i believe the OP meant to say). NO
3. Are Ferrari in a decline, i.e. Are they worse off than they were in the 2000s. YES.

Everything has a life-cycle. F1 teams are no different.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Johnson - I'll easy say it if needs be. I don't worry about annoying Islamatron.

Anyhoo, to topic. A lot of Ferrari's success was down to Jean Todt taking over in 93 (or was it 92?) with the one goal of making them the leading team. Since 97 they have been title contendors and he finally achieved his goal in 2000.

The success of Ferrari is easily attributable to Jean Todt. Without him would Ferrari have managed to sign Schumacher or would he have ended up in McLaren? When Schumacher joined then so did Ross Brawn. What made Ferrari great was the "F1 Dream Team". Ferrari no longer has this team and is suffering.

If you look through Ferrari's history, they have had a history of messing up at key moments. The peaks and troughs theory is not far off but I think their lack of performance is due to not having the right people anymore.

Driver choice is key in my humble opinion. Schumacher was clearly trhe best at helping to develop a car. Massa and Raikonnen where also a good pairing that could work together (despite Kimi's public image, apparently the exact opposite when there are no camereas) but Alonso? The guy is not a team player and this is detrimental to their performance.

Clearly their lack of performance is down to a number of factors. The main one for me is that they no longer have the best drivers and the best brains in the business.

The thing for me here is Ferrari DO still have the brains

[andrew]

Not the best ones like they used to though.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I think their influence is not what it once was. I thought F1 was not in the best of shapes from 2001-2004 and they were glory years for Ferrari.
Yes the Tifosi were galvanised and Ferrari looked magnificent, but F1 was no better off.

Todt was a great general no doubt. And Brawn was a magnificent brigadier, but the man they miss most of all is rory byrne(south african btw )

[andrew]

I think their influence is not what it once was. I thought F1 was not in the best of shapes from 2001-2004 and they were glory years for Ferrari.
Yes the Tifosi were galvanised and Ferrari looked magnificent, but F1 was no better off.

Todt was a great general no doubt. And Brawn was a magnificent brigadier, but the man they miss most of all is rory byrne(south african btw )

Aye, your not wrong there. It was the combination of the minds and talent that made thing happen for Ferrari.

And it was not Lewis Hamilton as Islamatron would no doubt have us believe! (Islamatron - NOW I'm trolling with that sentance ).

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I think their influence is not what it once was. I thought F1 was not in the best of shapes from 2001-2004 and they were glory years for Ferrari.
Yes the Tifosi were galvanised and Ferrari looked magnificent, but F1 was no better off.

Todt was a great general no doubt. And Brawn was a magnificent brigadier, but the man they miss most of all is rory byrne(south african btw )

Aye, your not wrong there. It was the combination of the minds and talent that made thing happen for Ferrari.

And it was not Lewis Hamilton as Islamatron would no doubt have us believe! (Islamatron - NOW I'm trolling with that sentance ).

I wont goad

[WhiteBlue]

In 2009 Ferrari missed the boat and dropped to 4th in the constructor's standing. That certainly was a decline. They dropped the development early in order to come back stronger this season.

Initially it looked like they would actually succeed. For the last three races it looks more like this resurgence was a flash in the pan. The betting market sees Ferrari on P3 with odds of 4.5 in comparison with 3.25 for McLaren and 1.67 for Red Bull.

Considering that they were leading the betting odds six weeks ago this is a pretty steep fall from grace. I would not exclude the possibility that both Mercedes and Renault will pass Ferrari in the development race of this season. Again the game is mostly in aerodynamics and Ferrari seems to suck at it.

It was already mentioned that Ferrari are having to make massive reductions in force to meet the RRA figures for the end of the years and the start of next season. This is not going to make the job any easier for them.

Bottom line Ferrari will probably land somewhere between third and fifth in the 2010 constructor championship. Is that a decline? Certainly if you still have them as potential 2010 champions in your expectations.

[PlatinumZealot]

I like team Ferrari. I think the team is very strong these days, it's just that the car's aerodynamics isn't very good.

[noname]

I like team Ferrari. I think the team is very strong these days, it's just that the car's aerodynamics isn't very good.

is not the car a product of the team ?

[segedunum]

Difficult to say, but they have lost the influence of all the team members who gave them success a few years ago, and if they didn't have Nikolas Tombazis at the team they would have Aldo Costa completely heading things who designed that disastrous 2005 car while Tombazis was at McLaren. They badly needed to replace Rory Byrne.

There's also rumblings that Alonso is unhappy about the pace of development and number of improvements........ Ah, the dream of driving for Ferrari, eh?

They've also spent far too much time on that F-duct when it's clearly cornering speed and downforce they are short of.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Ferrari are clearly a different animal to what they used to be 3 or 4 years ago. You can draw the line almost to the day Rory Byrne left as to how Ferrari's technical department have performed.
He is I believe, still an outside consultant for Ferrari. I dont think this is very productive, as talented as Byrne is, F1 is not a part time job.

Naturally Ferrari cannot always win, and I think we may not be very far away from the days when the team usually imploded when things went wrong(quite often!).
And the resource restriction is the main reason for this.

In a deeper twist, I see Ferrari coaxing other manufacturers to join it in a breakaway series once its contract with FIA(or is it CVC) has expired.
If they feel they want a technically innovative championship, rather than the stifled series F1 is becoming,then I say fair play if they do.
And I hope Mercedes and Renault join them.

[myurr]

In a deeper twist, I see Ferrari coaxing other manufacturers to join it in a breakaway series once its contract with FIA(or is it CVC) has expired.
If they feel they want a technically innovative championship, rather than the stifled series F1 is becoming,then I say fair play if they do.
And I hope Mercedes and Renault join them.

I actually think they're more likely to quit FOTA or just ignore the RRA completely. There have already been stories of them wanting to start using their test tracks again and I hold little hope of them achieving the RRA targets for next season.

If they do this then expect McLaren to join them immediately, with the others following just behind.

Personally I hope they do this - whilst the new teams are to be encouraged I don't feel this should be through holding the established teams back. But I expect most to disagree with me on this.

[autogyro]

Ferrari start another break away series, dont make me laugh
A break away series would suit Montezemelo of course but the only one he is capable of running is a series for Scalextric cars.
The way Ferrari are going at the moment Scalextric is likely to be a better bet for Alonso than the current car.

[andrew]

Ferrari start another break away series, dont make me laugh
A break away series would suit Montezemelo of course but the only one he is capable of running is a series for Scalextric cars.
The way Ferrari are going at the moment Scalextric is likely to be a better bet for Alonso than the current car.

Do you support any teams or drivers or do you just troll all day?

I'm actualy for a breakaway series. F1 has too many problems to be fixed quickly. Starting a new series from scratch is maybe for the best.

[autogyro]

I was simply pointing out that a break away series will never happen.
Who is going to pay for it???????????????