Hamilton.Button incident. The Truth!

[doopie2you]

We all saw what happend in Turkey, the team said on the board radio that both cars needed to save fuel! But how could Jenson then drive that fast towards Hamilton without that the team say to him to push!






And here it comes!

And we all saw what happend next!


All pictures come from the F1 review video from Formula1.com.

http://www.formula1.com/video/?inptC=Tu ... ace%20Edit

[WhiteBlue]

Why dod we get another thread for this. It is very much under discussion in the race thread!

[doopie2you]

Why dod we get another thread for this. It is very much under discussion in the race thread!

Because i think it deserves a thread of itself!

[Fil]

For the very same reason we're discussing Vettel crashing into Webber in about 4 different threads too..


You know, the most amazing part of all this, is that people first jump to intra-team conspiracies before they would even contemplate a driver making a mistake exiting a corner, allowing the following driver to catch him on the following straight


F1 fans are such cynical creatures these days.

[timbo]

You know, the most amazing part of all this, is that people first jump to intra-team conspiracies before they would even contemplate a driver making a mistake exiting a corner, allowing the following driver to catch him on the following straight

Just look at the kid's avatar...
When you have avatar like this your driver CAN'T DO WRONG!

[doopie2you]

You know, the most amazing part of all this, is that people first jump to intra-team conspiracies before they would even contemplate a driver making a mistake exiting a corner, allowing the following driver to catch him on the following straight

Just look at the kid's avatar...
When you have avatar like this your driver CAN'T DO WRONG!

Well before you start judging about my ability to judge if it is the team or the driver's mistace. First learn how to use Quote

And if you have watched the race, you would have seen that Lewis was told to save fuel. Because he don't want to end in the last lap without enough fuel. And then, he see's that Button is closing in on him! He COULD say f*ck it! And stops saving fuel and drive away from Button. Or he could ask the team, and hope they will tell him a honoust answer! He did the last, the team said he wouldn't overtake him, because they thought Button would listen and would save fuel like he was suppose to do! But he didn't listen and, even when the team SAW that in sector 1 and 2 Button was closing in with 3-4 tends. They STILL didn't tell Lewis to push.

And then Button attacked him, WHAT could Lewis do wrong in that situation. If a team tells you to save fuel, you save fuel! And if Button is that stupid that he thinks he is an exception, and he could push like hell then he isn't a good team player!

The people on the pitwall know the facts! You saw what happend when he almost Lewis got overtaken, Button had to save MORE FUEL and ended 2,6 sec behind Lewis!

[timbo]

Well before you start judging about my ability to judge if it is the team or the driver's mistace. First learn how to use Quote

Puhleez

The people on the pitwall know the facts!

You imply you work for McLaren?

[andrew]

Team orders is the truth but Button clearly did not get the message or did not want to comply. That kills the conspirocy theory on this one!

[doopie2you]

Well before you start judging about my ability to judge if it is the team or the driver's mistace. First learn how to use Quote

Puhleez

The people on the pitwall know the facts!

You imply you work for McLaren?

If you can't handle a comment on YOUR first answer about my avatar, then don't be a smart guy at the first place, and come with comment like: This kids's avater says enough!

And i imply nothing, but if you just think, you will know that it is a fact that the people at the pit wall know it! They will not, guess. They got the computers with the stats and facts! So if i work there or not, that just are the facts

[doopie2you]

Team orders is the truth but Button clearly did not get the message or did not want to comply. That kills the conspirocy theory on this one!

What team orders? they just gave him information that he was low on fuel. The thing is that Button ignored it, and tried to overtake Lewis! That is no problem, team members should be allowed to fight! But What was in my eyes very wrong was the way that McLaren informed Lewis, when Button hitted the gas and walked in on Lewis like crazy. Else you get just like RBR, that team members race each other out!

[andrew]

The "save fuel" transmission was clearly an order to both drivers to hold position. Seems strange that the lap times didn't suffer - strange that....

[Fil]

Exactly. Out of Turn 9 Jenson got a run on Lewis into T12, Lewis got a run back on Jenson into T1.
At that point the McLaren pitwall made it extremely clear to hold station by way of 'save fuel critical' messages to both drivers.


Doopie, i'm not sure why you're trying to make an issue of something that even the team nor either McLaren driver, aren't mentioning?


Swirl that teacup all you like, there's no storm to brew.

[timbo]

And i imply nothing, but if you just think, you will know that it is a fact that the people at the pit wall know it! They will not, guess. They got the computers with the stats and facts! So if i work there or not, that just are the facts

You can't present guess as fact.

If you look at the laps they posted you'd see that Hamilton lost ~2.5 seconds on lap 48, while Button ~1 second. So, why Hamilton lost 1.5 seconds?
Either he messed up at some corner, or he doesn't know how to save fuel AND keep pace. Actually the latter is not correct as after that his pace was in 1.30s-1.31s as was Button's. So it is most likely he just had a moment in some corner.

[PlatinumZealot]

Maybe Hamilton put the pace down by 0.5 seconds, then the overtake cost 1 second. The other thing we have to consider how far was Button behind Hamilton on that lap. If Button was 0.5 to 1 second behind.. then it's easy for him to catch Hamilton without Hamilton making a mistake.
but it's obvious Button was going full bore on that lap, he obviously was not obeying the order to slow down as he claims he was not given a lap time target. This contradicts Tim Goss the head engineer who said Both drivers were giving a target time of 1:31.5 seconds.

[segedunum]

At that point the McLaren pitwall made it extremely clear to hold station by way of 'save fuel critical' messages to both drivers.

That save fuel stuff is nonsense. They were told to save fuel long before then and it had no effect.

Doopie, i'm not sure why you're trying to make an issue of something that even the team nor either McLaren driver, aren't mentioning?

Swirl that teacup all you like, there's no storm to brew.

I think you'll find there is, no matter how much McLaren or their two drivers try to be all sweetness and light. The only thing that's saved them really is that Red Bull took most of the headlines. Goodness knows what would have happened if Button had maintained that position, and like it or lump it it sent a real message regardless. These things always do all the way back to Pironi and Villeneuve. Lewis quite clearly wondered what on Earth was happening there and it's certainly a real subplot to that race.

Things like this have never proved to be as simple as they might appear at face value given time.