Should Ferrari and Alonso backtrack on cheating claim?

[WhiteBlue]

It’s a shame, not for us because this is racing, but for all the fans who came here to watch a manipulated race.

A scandal , that’s the opinion of so many fans and experts involved in the sport, who are all in agreement: there is no other way to describe what happened during the European Grand Prix. The way the race and the incidents during it were managed raise doubts that could see Formula 1 lose some credibility again, as it was seen around the world.

Alonso and Ferrari are kicking up a lot of fuss which is giving F1 a bad name. All that happened was that the rules - to which Ferrari consented btw - were applied. If they disagree with the rules the can very well address that at the proper authorities and meetings and lobby for a change.

Accusing race control and the stewards of cheating and manipulations is beyond the line of what a team is allowed in its publicity. They have all agreed and committed to support the series and do their best to promote it. Ferrari and Alonso IMO have clearly over stepped that line. They should be reprimanded by the FiA and asked to backtrack on those statements.

If they refuse to backtrack they should be called in front of the WMSC for bringing the sport in disrepute.

[mx_tifoso]

NO. They have a right to question and speak their mind about the governing body.

They felt screwed over and spoke their mind, get over it.

And their questioning isn't giving F1 a bad name, it's the rules and regulations, along with the management of races when things go wrong or there are questionable incidents involving drivers.

[hollus]

OK, sanctioning them looks a bit excessive. Are you so sure that they are not right?
The problem is that while all that happened on track was legal, it smells dubious.

Hamilton might well have just hesitated, but one gets the feeling that he came out of the hesitation just on time to leave Alonso behind the SC. Agreed, that was the likely outcome likely anyways without any help, and Alonso himself said so, at least to the Spanish press.

That the SC did not report anything, dubious, smelly. Did the SC driver have anything else to do than watch that line and the only car he could get in the way at the time? Did the SC not see it? Did he see it and not report?

What was Charlie whiting (and a lot of helpers) doing at the time? Was there anything much more important going on than checking the SC deployment? Nobody in the whole room saw it? What were they all doing for the next 5-10 laps?

After Alonso complained, at a time when they had nothing else to do at all, other 3-4 laps go by. And then the penalty comes exactly at the time (-3 laps, but all knew he had 3 laps to serve the penalty) when it would have about no effect.

Honestly, in Spain it is becoming a running joke how Charlie Whiting hands Hamilton the most effect-less penalties, would he have handed him a reprimand if the gap was smaller? No, possibly just wait another couples of laps for the gap to grow?

The problem is, that all was legal, all looked fine, penalties got given and served, but one is left with so many doubts on everybodies goodwill that deciding who was wrong (or if nobody was) is difficult.

By the way, enough Alonso bashing threads for a race, no?

[Just_a_fan]

The whole of Ferrari/Alonso's "performance" stinks. Not without precedent with Ferrari of course.

The FIA should tell Ferrari to take a running jump if they insist on making such allegations. Contrary to Ferrari's belief, F1 can survive without Ferrari.

[mep]

How many of these threats you want to start?
Of course they are allowed to question the rules this doesn't give F1 a bad name.
Maybe some people are smart enough to think about some rules again and try to improve them.
Btw. do you want to be put into prison when you criticize the rules made by government?

[Just_a_fan]

NO. They have a right to question and speak their mind about the governing body.

Sure but accusing the FIA of maipulating the race result is more than this...

They felt screwed over and spoke their mind, get over it.

One could say the same to Ferrari

And their questioning isn't giving F1 a bad name, it's the rules and regulations, along with the management of races when things go wrong or there are questionable incidents involving drivers.

Both things give F1 a bad name. However, one just looks incompetent, the other looks childish and unseemly.

[WhiteBlue]

And their questioning isn't giving F1 a bad name, it's the rules and regulations, along with the management of races when things go wrong or there are questionable incidents involving drivers.

I agree that the rules were not good.

I cannot agree with the sentiment of the honored moderator here. Alonso and Ferrari did not question the rules and regulations as they should have. They went directly to the press to claim that the race was manipulated and a scandal. It is obvious for everyone that race control and the stewards only did what they were supposed to do and that Ferrari were unlucky in the way things turned out.

mx_tifosi, if you support the reds in this question please specify by which actions the FiA men manipulated the race. We can have a reasonable debate about this question I guess?

[mx_tifoso]

I'm not supporting anyone here, but everyone has the right to voice their opinion whether others like it or not. I don't care for Ferrari's constant "moaning" either, but they shouldn't have to retract their claims.

Edit: No merge.

[WhiteBlue]

I'm not supporting anyone here, but everyone has the right to voice their opinion whether others like it or not. I don't care for Ferrari's constant "moaning" either, but they shouldn't have to retract their claims.

Btw, this should have been discussed in the Alonso thread. I will merge it and the poll will be lost.

You forget that F1 teams and license holders have an obligation to promote F1. They have signed a concord agreement to that purpose. Making false accusations of cheating against the governing bodie's officers is not consistent with that obligation.

UNDERTAKINGS
5. FOCA and the Manufacturers each undertake that:
(a) they will do nothing which may be prejudicial to the image and dignity
of Formula One racing as a high class sport;

13.7 If in the opinion of the F1 Commission a competitor fails to operate his team in a manner compatible with the standards of the Championship or in any way brings the Championship into disrepute, the FIA may exclude such competitor from the Championship forthwith.

Ferrari should be careful to avoid being hauled in front of the F1 commission for their accusations.

You still have not answered the question why race control or the stewards should have manipulated and created a scandal!

[ecapox]

OK, sanctioning them looks a bit excessive. Are you so sure that they are not right?
The problem is that while all that happened on track was legal, it smells dubious.

Hamilton might well have just hesitated, but one gets the feeling that he came out of the hesitation just on time to leave Alonso behind the SC. Agreed, that was the likely outcome likely anyways without any help, and Alonso himself said so, at least to the Spanish press.

That the SC did not report anything, dubious, smelly. Did the SC driver have anything else to do than watch that line and the only car he could get in the way at the time? Did the SC not see it? Did he see it and not report?

What was Charlie whiting (and a lot of helpers) doing at the time? Was there anything much more important going on than checking the SC deployment? Nobody in the whole room saw it? What were they all doing for the next 5-10 laps?

After Alonso complained, at a time when they had nothing else to do at all, other 3-4 laps go by. And then the penalty comes exactly at the time (-3 laps, but all knew he had 3 laps to serve the penalty) when it would have about no effect.

Honestly, in Spain it is becoming a running joke how Charlie Whiting hands Hamilton the most effect-less penalties, would he have handed him a reprimand if the gap was smaller? No, possibly just wait another couples of laps for the gap to grow?

The problem is, that all was legal, all looked fine, penalties got given and served, but one is left with so many doubts on everybodies goodwill that deciding who was wrong (or if nobody was) is difficult.

I think you hit the nail on the head perfectly. i dont think that all the criticising they are doing is good, but i'd be furious as well. I think it is hard to swallow that there were MANY infractions by MANY drivers this race and the outcome of the race was the exact same as if no one had committed any infractions.

Hamilton has been to visit the stewards and investigated MANY times this season but nothing ever comes of it. He gets a reprimaand or a penalty that does nothing. I think theis just enforces the thought that as long as you break a rule and use it to your advantage correctly, theere is nothing that they can do to yo...and that is a BAD precedent to set.

[WhiteBlue]

The safety car penalty on Schumacher in Monaco was drastic. It shows that the severeness of the penalty is mainly caused by circumstances. Ferrari and Alonso had bad luck. They may lobby for a change of the SC rule. That would be ok. But shooting off their mouth about manipulation is in violation of the CA obligations. I repeat my challenge to everyone who supports Ferrari and Alonso in this issue: Please specify what constituted manipulation!

[clarkiesyeah]

I draw everyones mind back to China...

"I made a serious mistake at the start as my reflexes let me down and I left early," said Alonso.

"It's never happened to me before and I am very disappointed with myself.

"Luckily, despite the penalty, I managed to finish fourth."

Simple. All drivers make occasional errors of judgement in a sport which relies on quick reflexes and fast decision making. No drivers accused Alonso of cheating because they couldn't get past him in China despite his penalty. Clear cut case of sour grapes on Alonso's part.

Lets not forget Alonso's refusal to give up his race win that was the result of real "cheating" a short while ago. To start making these kind of noises is just sickeningly hypocritical.

Not only should Ferrari withdraw their unprofessional comments but the FIA should punish them for bringing the sport into disrepute. Alonso needs to be taught to keep his mouth shut, loose lips sink ships, as they say.

[clarkiesyeah]

Oh yeah...

And something about some team or other doing a bit of sneaky testing last week... Cheats never prosper, maybe thats why FA has lost out here. He clearly thinks LH would do that on purpose because he, Alonso would happily cheat all day long to win. Alonso is a proven cheat(2008sgp) who thinks everyones up to dirty tricks too.
A guilty man trying to cover his own weakness!

[Avto]

It's funny how Alonso was a hero back when he was racing Michael in 05/06, now he is a Ferrari man and therefore a cheater. So, 05/06 must have been cheaters vs cheaters and poor old McLaren who could never do wrong, were the only ones standing up to the rule of this tyrants.

[ISLAMATRON]

Alonso was a cheater at McLaren and at Renault, that is not the issue here, the issue is if his comments were over the top(yes) and should they be punished(no)

No doubt Hamilton deserved a penalty for passing the SC, and no doubt the stewards took too long to penalise him, but then again I'm still waiting for Alonso to be penalised for Singapore 08

If anyone knows about manipulating a race it should be Alonso

if anyonethinks Alonso's comments were disconcerting just wait till that... Luca M. opens his mouth