Alonso says race 'manipulated' (He isn't angry any more)

[myurr]

[

And its really dangerous like again what happened to Massa in Singapore 2008
Its massively dangerous to have all cars come in at the same time

And the current rules are causing exactly that.

That depends on the timing of the safety car - if it's around the time of the first stops then the field will be spread out, so less of a pile up if they all came in than if the field was all bunched up because of the SC, and then they all had to pit for tyres on the lap the SC came in and the pits reopened.

Neither solution, pits opened or closed, works in all instances and the trade offs appear pretty equal with the exception that keeping the pits open results in, in my view, less opportunity for interpretation of the rules (what constitutes enough damage to be allowed to pit, etc.).

As someone else pointed out Alonso benefitted massively from the safety can in Monaco and there was no whinging from him or his team or a clammer to change the rules on this board. Now that he's lost out from a safety car situation there is a sudden desire to see the rules changed.

[Miguel]

I must go ahead and say that I'm very impressed that, according to some, because I'm spanish:

1. I slaughter defenceless creatures (I'm sure they fight the holy chemical war against insects, though)
2. I throw bottles at people due to their nationality, or turn my head around in case it was a mate who threw it
3. If I happen to dislike someone because their light absorption pattern, it's obviously because of the different optical properties and not because anything else.

And I'm impressed because no one has yet played the card that, if I'm spanish, I don't know jack about F1 because of that.

Let me tell you that I've met quite a few people in the country I currently live that were cheering for the economical crisis in Greece. They were cheering for people on the dole, people getting lower salaries and families having to endure hard times, just because it fitted their sociopolitical agenda. I'm sure they will be very happy if the lies and speculation with the spanish banks end up with my friends being fired and my parents not being able to pay their mortgage.

So, please, could we please stop blaming the bullfighters for the issues at Valencia? Could we please stop saying that spaniards are racists and that is why they throw empty beer bottles (or nukes if they had them) at Hamilton. You know, maybe, just maybe, it fell. Or maybe a steward didn't do his job properly.

EDIT: And the Alonso-Dennis relationship started to wear down in Melbourne, when his family had to go to the Renault motorhome to feel supported, and broke down completely by Monaco when Dennis told him, after winning the race, that he should be thankful. Not in Hungary, no.

[timbo]

Neither solution, pits opened or closed, works in all instances and the trade offs appear pretty equal with the exception that keeping the pits open results in, in my view, less opportunity for interpretation of the rules (what constitutes enough damage to be allowed to pit, etc.).

IMO closed pits are easier rule to interpret. It also makes easier creating and maintaining the pack.

As someone else pointed out Alonso benefitted massively from the safety can in Monaco and there was no whinging from him or his team or a clammer to change the rules on this board. Now that he's lost out from a safety car situation there is a sudden desire to see the rules changed.

The whining was not because he lost. It was because Hamilton broke the rules and didn't suffer from it.

[timbo]

What if someone can pit(on purpose) just before a SC and there is a huge accident, and he comes out first when everyone pits ? ala Singapore 2008

Why we have to discuss it? When you create highway code, do you take into account pimps high on crack that would rush the red light in front of the kindergarten?

[vall]

Where is the great benefit over the current rules?

The benefit is safety.
With the precedent set in European GP (5 second penalty) there would be situations where team would consider breaking the rules and rushing to pit.

I am curious to know what these 5 sec penalties were based on? Such a penalty does not exist in the regs that's why MS got 20 sec in Monaco .....

[daijiro]

Fernando´s family is well known in Spain about his behaviour with everyone in the paddock in every competition he raced.So do not talk about thing you don´t know........
If you don´t believe me come to Oviedo and anyone can tell you about Fernando´s father manouvers.....

[Miguel]

Fernando´s family is well known in Spain about his behaviour with everyone in the paddock in every competition he raced.So do not talk about thing you don´t know........
If you don´t believe me come to Oviedo and anyone can tell you about Fernando´s father manouvers.....

Mmm... No one told me anything about his father last time I was in Oviedo.

EDIT: I was just joking. I haven't personally met many people from Oviedo, and the few I have were either friends of my G/F or chemists, which means F1 was not a priority talk.

[Super racing]

Fernando´s family is well known in Spain about his behaviour with everyone in the paddock in every competition he raced.So do not talk about thing you don´t know........
If you don´t believe me come to Oviedo and anyone can tell you about Fernando´s father manouvers.....

Could you please enlighten us since most of us cant go ask the Oviedo people?

[myurr]

Neither solution, pits opened or closed, works in all instances and the trade offs appear pretty equal with the exception that keeping the pits open results in, in my view, less opportunity for interpretation of the rules (what constitutes enough damage to be allowed to pit, etc.).

IMO closed pits are easier rule to interpret. It also makes easier creating and maintaining the pack.

I've already produced lists of circumstances where closing the pits to most but allowing some in are open to abuse or drivers suffering random reshuffles every bit as bad as that suffered by Alonso. It's impossible to close the pits to all, so there is always going to be interpretation of rules. At least with the pits open you are only going to luck in or out according to the timing of the SC and not through whether or not the rules also allow you to pit. Partially closing the pits leads to both sets of circumstances playing a factor.

It also does little to help create and maintain the pack - whether the pits are open or closed it would still take 1 - 2 laps to form the pack. If it's that dangerous for cars to be passing the crash site without being formed up behind the safety car then the race would need to be red flagged regardless.

[autogyro]

The pit 'exit' would be totaly closed for anything other than safety and emergency vehicles for the whole period the SC is deployed.
Any car piting with race director permission would start from the pit lane 'after' all the cars re-starting when the SC pulls in have gone past the pit exit and the green light is shown.
Drivers would not ask to pit for minor damage because they would go strait to the back of the race order.
Dont forget there is also no fuel advantage only an extra fuel weight disadvantage to piting and waiting.

[myurr]

The pit 'exit' would be totaly closed for anything other than safety and emergency vehicles for the whole period the SC is deployed.
Any car piting with race director permission would start from the pit lane 'after' all the cars re-starting when the SC pulls in have gone past the pit exit and the green light is shown.
Drivers would not ask to pit for minor damage because they would go strait to the back of the race order.
Dont forget there is also no fuel advantage only an extra fuel weight disadvantage to piting and waiting.

You honestly believe that any car would pit when they'd go, say, 5 or 10 laps down and they'd have to keep their engines running whilst stationary for that entire period? If they could physically keep running, no matter how damaged, then they would and if they couldn't keep running even if it's just a puncture then they'd just retire (great for the fans and really fair for the driver).

And most importantly you'd happily allow damaged cars to continue circulating? So someone with a front puncture or badly flat spotted tyre or missing front wing can carry on driving past marshalls with a damaged car hoping they don't make a mistake?

And what if it rains? Everyone pits for tyres and then all wait in the pit lane whilst the safety car continues to circulate? And if you allow pitting for rain tyres, what happens to those cars waiting at the end of the pits after pitting for damage? Do they block the pit lane?

Ridiculous and very ill thought out in my opinion.

[siskue2005]

What if someone can pit(on purpose) just before a SC and there is a huge accident, and he comes out first when everyone pits ? ala Singapore 2008

Why we have to discuss it? When you create highway code, do you take into account pimps high on crack that would rush the red light in front of the kindergarten?

coz a well know driver and team did cheat and won like that

[timbo]

What if someone can pit(on purpose) just before a SC and there is a huge accident, and he comes out first when everyone pits ? ala Singapore 2008

Why we have to discuss it? When you create highway code, do you take into account pimps high on crack that would rush the red light in front of the kindergarten?

coz a well know driver and team did cheat and won like that

You want to make rules Piquet-proof?
Make teams use only one car.
If people decide to do wrong you CAN'T stop them.

[Ciro Pabón]

...

If people decide to do wrong you CAN'T stop them.

Well, there is always the old and trusty disintegrator ray-gun. I can lend you mine: is quite useful in traffic jams.

[timbo]

...

If people decide to do wrong you CAN'T stop them.

Well, there is always the old and trusty disintegrator ray-gun. I can lend you mine: is quite useful in traffic jams.

Does it work on internets?