Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
RH1300S wrote:Ferrari are at least able to test road cars there.
As for F1, I think they should be applauded for agreeing to accept the ban when they invested so much to gain an advantage (ok they were dragged kicking and screaming to the ban, but they did agree to it).
I think they need to slightly lift the testing ban soon - restricted in season testing isn't a bad thing as long as the scheduling doesn't force teams to need a separate test team. On a separate level something needs to be done about giving new drivers seat time in a current car - it's too much to ask of a young driver to chuck them straight into a race situation (having said that this year's crop haven't disgraced themselves).
I kind of miss the testing spy shots gave us something to talk about between races. I think the trying to even out resources will be the end of F1 as we know it. I think it is heading down the Indy/Nascar road. I guess if you want to watch a bunch of slightly larger GP2 teams duke it out. Id rather watch the big teams fighting tooth and nail with amazing updates every race. As it stands now the winner of the season is some one predetermined as the others don't have much of a chance to catch up. See Brawn last year and RBR this year. (yes I know they are not leading the car is still bloody fast)
exactly! To bring the football comparison back, I don't what to see matches between Salamanca and Tenerife!!! I want Barca,Real,AtlM, Valencia, with all the big players they have! And I definitely do not what to see the Spanish 2nd division. The route F1 has taken recently, soon we will have a slightly large GP2 version, not real F1.
autogyro wrote:You cant compare motor sport with grollyball.
One is a grown ups sport using the best technology available, the other is a childrens ball game blown up out of all logic by the media.
well, most of the people I talk to about F1, they couldn't care less. For them motorsport is just a pointless exercise of driving cars around a track and all those people who actually go and see this are idiots.
raceman wrote:Take the blown diffuser and F-duct, both things are banned from 2011; what's the use of the creativity then - just for a single year?? The technology is of use only when it is invented and mastered to perfection through testing and continuous usage. You invent tyre warmers, FIA bans it; you invent traction control, FIA bans it; you invent outboard mirrors for better airflow, FIA bans it; you invent movable floor, FIA bans it; you want to make better engines, FIA has freezed it for five years (ridiculously ridiculous to use the same-spec engine for five years; we don't even use a damn mobile phone for five years); etc. This list will go on and on and on..... How much and how many things will you ban under the cute name of 'cost control' every now and then?? What the FIA wants to invent by putting restrictions, a $100 tech piece that is used for F1, the pinnacle fo motorsports??
So, today's F1 highlights the restrictions more than the creativity as the rules are very stringent. When FIA and FOM wants millions of dollars in entry fees and deposits, the participation costs are bound to go higher and higher to overcome the initial spent amount to FIA and FOM as fees.
Anyways, the more we talk about this, the more will evolve. My point is - FIA should look at F1 as a pinnacle of motorsports for inventions and not for making strict rules! Let the creativity bloom, you will see amazing things!
You are wrong, extremely wrong. First of all blown diffuser is not banned for next year, but the DDD is, so is F-duct... BUT THESE WERE BANNED BY THE TEAMS(FOTA) NOT THE FIA
And it was also FOTA that put the in season test ban into effect, I remember Luca M. running around boasting about it like he personally saved F1.
How many billions did Toyota pour in? and during that time what did they innovate? Nothing at all really, they were allways playing catch up.
But please keep blaming the FIA, because it is so much easier than realising the truth that the teams have their heads up their asses.
Last edited by ISLAMATRON on 15 Jul 2010, 18:18, edited 1 time in total.
While I agree with a lot of the points on this thread, one observation made to me years ago by one of my college lecturers springs to mind.
In the UK (at least), amateur radio enthusiasts (Hams) have over the years been restricted more and more, and pushed into frequencies which were previously thought of little or no commercial use in terms of licensing. As these restrictions have been made broader, the hams have been forced to find ways of using the previously undesirable frequencies and techniques, and have succeeded in doing so.
Paradoxically, it is this very ingenuity which has progressively made the frequencies which were considered not-commercially viable to suddenly become useful, thus prompting the authorities to license that bandwidth too, causing the hams to develop further.
I would like to see a similar effect in F1, but I think that it's probably a bit too soon for this to happen.
If for example, the "dirty sister of CFD" appeared, whereby teams could realistically model within a modest computer, the team who embraced this could find themselves able to dominate for a season or two until the rest of the pack caught up. Once they did, it would be the team to spot the "next big thing" who would then be able to dominate and so on.
Arms races (in both the military and evolutionary sense) are generally the times when development moves fastest. However, generally speaking these arms races wind up with all sides still with a similar position in respect of the others, but in the meantime lots of expenditure and energy has gone into essentially maintaining the status quo.
The answer to the ultimate question, of life, the Universe and ... Everything?
Hey look at that... the teams made the rule... when does that ever happen?, other than everyday
Glad to see that whitmarsh tookthe high road instead of coppying Ferrari and Mercedes in exploiting the loophole.
There, I fixed it for you. If there was no loophole exploitation in F1, we wouldnt have a DDD or F-Duct. What was done wasnt against the written rules.
CHT wrote:Somehow I am having this feeling that Ferrari is not going to win another championship for sometime to come due to the testing restriction. In the past, Ferrari was able to use their private test track to test all the bits and pieces before bringing to the track, and now they can only rely on CFD and windtunnel model, which is probably their weakest link.
I am actually not surprise that Alonso is feeling it.
Oh dear yet another Ferrari bashing thread. Why don't we have any McLaren or Red Bull or Renault bashing threads?
So what if Ferrari have their own track? Why should that be held against a team? Ferrari tested just as much as teh other teams, only they did it in private rather than with the rest of the other teams.
vall wrote:As far as I know F1 is the only sport where measures for artificially equalise the field are introduced! Go tell Real Madrid, Barca, ManU, Liverpool, Juventus, Inter, Bayern, Milan, and the other big football clubs that they cannot spend more than 50MEuro/year? What is going to happen?
Er, heard of the Premiership Rugby, NBA, Top 14, Super League, NRL et al salary caps? [-X
Andrew, with 900 staff and 10 chassis, do you really think that Ferrari tested as much as the other teams?
Do you mean as much as the entire F1 field put together? You may be right!
Ok maybe I exagerated slightly, but it is a fact that ALL teams tested like mad.
Red Bull bought the A1 Ring to turn it into a testing facility right before the ridiculous in-season testing ban started. Why's no one bashing Red Bull for aiming to do a Ferrari?
vall wrote:As far as I know F1 is the only sport where measures for artificially equalise the field are introduced! Go tell Real Madrid, Barca, ManU, Liverpool, Juventus, Inter, Bayern, Milan, and the other big football clubs that they cannot spend more than 50MEuro/year? What is going to happen?
Er, heard of the Premiership Rugby, NBA, Top 14, Super League, NRL et al salary caps? [-X
it is not quite the same. Do they have salary cap per player or total salary caps?
Dukeage wrote:
Er, heard of the Premiership Rugby, NBA, Top 14, Super League, NRL et al salary caps? [-X
Where is the cap on spending money on the team?
Drivers salries are not the agenda. Team budgets are, and Premiership Rugby, NBA, Super league et al are still dominated by the big spenders.
If you are putting balls in baskets you obviously spend your big money on the men who can do that best. If you try to finish a motor race in the shortest possible time you put your main money into making the fastest car. If money distorts the sport in basketball they need to limit salaries, if money distorts and kills the sport in motor racing the resources for making a car fast need to be limited.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best ..............................organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
Hey look at that... the teams made the rule... when does that ever happen?, other than everyday
Glad to see that whitmarsh tookthe high road instead of coppying Ferrari in their cheating ways.
The irony of your post will not be lost on intelligent readers of this site.
last year he was arguing DDDs were clever engineering and that there was no such thing as "spirit of the rules". Now when Ferrari and Merc did something that is not against the written rules, suddenly the "spirit of the rules" goes the other way.....
