Is Hamilton desperate or what?

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marcush.
marcush.
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Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

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myurr wrote:In my view the top drivers at the moment are, in order: Hamilton, Kubica, Vettel, Alonso, Rosberg. I think that Kobayashi could join the tail end of that group through sheer fighting spirit but I'm not sure he could quite crack the top 3. Last year I wouldn't have rated Rosberg so highly as he was still a bit hit and miss, but this year I think he's stepped up to the challenge of a prestigious team mate and has raised his game.

The only reason I have Alonso fourth and not second is that I honestly think the pressure has overcome him this year. He went to Ferrari expecting to get back into the championship fight, and it's just not happening for him. The car is merely okay, with flashes of pace but not consistently enough from race to race, and both he and the team are making far too many mistakes.

Webber, Button and Massa are probably best of the rest. All three can be near unbeatable on their day when the car is just right, but they all make too many mistakes (Button more so in qualifying than the race) and aren't good enough when the car isn't quite right. I've placed Vettel ahead of them as I think he has more raw pace, but when things aren't quite right he does seem to lose a lot of his speed. So whilst I've placed him third I think that's still subject to review.

I'm still interested to see where Schumacher can end up in the driver rankings, but so far this season he has done little to justify his drive let alone place amongst the top 5 or so drivers. This is probably due to a nasty combination of being race rusty, his driving style not suiting the current cars and therefore needing time to adapt, and having a mediocre car, but by now he should be at least pushing Rosberg whereas just as often as not he is still several tenths away on pace.

Behind them are numerous fine drivers but no one who stands out. Rubens is a good guy and good fit for Williams as they try to recover, Sutil has a lot of potential and is driving pretty well this year, Petrov has been hit or miss but I think he deserves a second year, I expected more of Hulkenberg but again I think he has done enough to justify a second season, Kovalainen and Glock probably deserve better cars, Liuzzi has had a couple of fairly good races but I'm not convinced he's good enough for F1, Senna and Chandhok both deserve a proper season in a proper F1 car, and de la Rosa is probably playing a large part in Saubers recovery (if his test drivers reputation is deserved) and he faired well against Koby early on, but I think he's fading a little bit. Probably still worth keeping around for Sauber for one last year.

frankly speaking you would not be able to quantify the relative strengths of drivers in different cars.
If one car has a significant speed advantage over the other ,is and the driver with the slower car is able to defend for the whole race without resorting to unfair tactics not the better driver ?
Is a driver failing to score points for some races in a row in the third uickest car without technical issues a top 5 driver?
To me a top driver is extracting the max out of available day in day outcome race day.
so for me the Ranking absolutely clearly is 1.Hamilton ,2.Button ,3.Rosberg /Kubica,5.Webber ,6 Vettel...
Without a doubt a lot of drivers currently in F1 would have ammassed more points driving for RedBull this year..this is my honest opinion.Both Ham and Button would lead ,no doubt about it.

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

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Vettel would not appear in my top 5. But I can see why people rate him, just think a 33 year old Aussie stands ahead of him :wink:

Hamilton has proved he can live with Alonso, beat Button and beat Kovalainen.
This is defacto requirement if he is to be considered anything near great.
But on the road to greatness he is!

But if you had to compare someone like Kobayahi to Hamilton, you would see more than just a few similarities. The difference is Kobayashi is having to prove himself in inferior harware, which is much harder than having to shine in a great car.

I would accept Kobayashi, isnt near Hamilton...yet. But his is slowly garnering his reputation(in a sauber of all things) and I cannot wait to see this guy in some top machinery. Because I think he will scare the bejesus out of the old guard in anything nearing an MP-4/25.
More could have been done.
David Purley

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

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If everyone had Red Bulls, it would be so close(obviously).

My leftfield(great band too) observation is that you would have, and in no particular order:
Alonso, Hamilton, Kubica, Rosberg, and Kobayashi

Below them
Vettel Webber Massa Schumacher Buemi Button

The rest.

Vettel and webber are both very good, but not producing in what is the best car.
They should both be ahead in the championship.
Button is a tough one I like him, but he cannot grab a car by the scruff of the neck and push it 3 tenths quicker.
Massa isnt the same as he once was, same goes for Shumi.
All of these are veryvery good mind, just lack that final x factor that the guys I feel, at the top have.
More could have been done.
David Purley

Giblet
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Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

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I read in Motorsport this month that Kubica is the one driver that Hamilton fears the most, and would be hardest for him to beat in a top car.

It's not just the pace that he has in pocket, it's the fact that he rarely ever makes a mistake on track. This is apparently why Renault also like him so much.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

autogyro
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Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

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+1
I have believed Kubica to have all the potential of a super star driver for some time. I have been a bit dissapointed this year though.
Hamilton is correct I think.

vall
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Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

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I think they all fear Alonso most, quite rightfully I must say.

Giblet
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Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

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vall wrote:I think they all fear Alonso most, quite rightfully I must say.
Except the fact that Hamilton fears Kubica most.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

ell66
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Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

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vall wrote:I think they all fear Alonso most, quite rightfully I must say.
maybe 2 years ago...

marcush.
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Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

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Alonso has not been really impressive recently ...

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ringo
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Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

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Kubica, may well be the next Alonso to Hamilton. But i just think compared to heidfeld he was not much farther ahead.
Maybe we are underrating Heidfeld then?
I want to see Kubica destroy a seasoned teammate before i can accept that he can make Hamilton sweat bullets.
Hamilton is a champion slayer. He slew Alonso and He's destroying button.

I don't know if pace is Kubica's strong point as much as his consistency and aggression is. He also seems to be fearless.
However the way how Hamilton went around him in China, may yet show that he fears Hamilton.
For Sure!!

vall
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Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

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ringo wrote: here's the china battle.[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaSCFbXt8h4[/youtube]

watch from 7:27, kubica didn't show much here. However it would be interesting to see him in a top 3 car.
well, if you look carefully, ~80% of these overtakes were on the straight where McLaren superior straight speed was the decisive factor (incl. Kubica overtake) or overtaking much slower cars. Another ~10% were due to driver errors ahead of him and about

myurr
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Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

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ringo wrote:Kubica, may well be the next Alonso to Hamilton. But i just think compared to heidfeld he was not much farther ahead.
Maybe we are underrating Heidfeld then?
I want to see Kubica destroy a seasoned teammate before i can accept that he can make Hamilton sweat bullets.
Hamilton is a champion slayer. He slew Alonso and He's destroying button.

I don't know if pace is Kubica's strong point as much as his consistency and aggression is. He also seems to be fearless.
However the way how Hamilton went around him in China, may yet show that he fears Hamilton.
I would actually rate Heidfeld close to, say, a Button or a Webber. In the right car he will consistently deliver points week in week out. He lacks the flair to really fight for wins / the championship, but he'd always be close enough to capitalise on any mistakes or misfortunes. So I guess he is underrated, in my view.

vall
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Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

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myurr wrote:
ringo wrote:Kubica, may well be the next Alonso to Hamilton. But i just think compared to heidfeld he was not much farther ahead.
Maybe we are underrating Heidfeld then?
I want to see Kubica destroy a seasoned teammate before i can accept that he can make Hamilton sweat bullets.
Hamilton is a champion slayer. He slew Alonso and He's destroying button.

I don't know if pace is Kubica's strong point as much as his consistency and aggression is. He also seems to be fearless.
However the way how Hamilton went around him in China, may yet show that he fears Hamilton.
I would actually rate Heidfeld close to, say, a Button or a Webber. In the right car he will consistently deliver points week in week out. He lacks the flair to really fight for wins / the championship, but he'd always be close enough to capitalise on any mistakes or misfortunes. So I guess he is underrated, in my view.
He is indeed a good #2 driver, but nothing more. He will deliver point, but when comes to winning races and WDC, he is not the man.

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

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ringo wrote: Hamilton is a champion slayer. He slew Alonso.
[-X

This myth really riles me. "Slew" him? "destroy" him?

These are not terms you use while describing finishing levels on points to a team mate who was openly villified by McLaren as "treacherous" DURING the season.
I dont subscribe to the logic and while I accept you have an opinion, I fear it to be tainted somewhat by your adulation of Hamilton.

Alonso isnt having the best of seasons, granted. But shall we look at Lewis first half of the year last year? Blame the car if you wish, but thats a double edged sword. Because if you blame the car for his performances, anyone can just as easily credit the car over the driver for the good performances.

No fan of Alonso's for his misdemeanour's in the past, but to say hamilton is better on the basis of 2007 is pure fantasy.
More could have been done.
David Purley

andrew
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Re: Is Hamilton desperate or what?

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His Uncle Ron was certainly key to the team that year.