Is Hamilton desperate or what?

[marcush.]

i come to think even this is not the full story.
How fared teammate against the cahmp is also of significance.So was teammate 2nd placed in the final standings would make a difference as well.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Alonso was equal on points to him, he then had an undisputable no.2 driver in Kovalainen for 2 years, and now Button(whom he supposedly would murder) is only a few points behind him with 50% of the season gone.
Fact remains, first 4 years, 4 winning cars, unprecedented in F1.

[myurr]

In each of his 4 years in F1 Hamilton has had a car capable of winning.
Even 2009, the second half of 2009, Hamiltons Mclaren was the the class of the field.
Christ even Kovalainen looked good in it!

Kovalainen never looked that great in the McLaren. His qualifying pace was okay but he tended to burn out the rear tyres too quickly in the race. And in the second half of 2009 the McLaren was one of three cars that were the class of the field depending on the circuit - Brawn and Red Bull were right up there.

Now name me one driver who at the start of his career has had a winning car in each of his first 4 years.

Yes he's had a privileged start to his career, but he's not the first and won't be the last. Drivers like Hill, DC and JV were gifted cars capable of winning from the outset. The fact that he managed to finish 2nd and then 1st in the championship surely proves the teams was right to put their faith in him and he has justified that privileged start to his career.

It doesn't diminish the fact that he's made the best of the machinery he's been given. In 2008 Kovalainen had a car capable of winning the world championship but didn't come close - he finished 7th with just over half Hamiltons points total. Again in 2009 Kovalainen ended up with less than half Hamilton's points despite the same car. This year he's beating the reigning World Champion in equal machinery.

Like it or not he beat Alonso in his debut year, albeit by the slimmest of margins. This was a rookie matching a two time world champ with several years of experience. I actually suspect that this is playing on Alonso's mind significantly this year - he's had a couple of awkward years at Renault where he could rightly blame the car, but this year was supposed to be his big return to the front of the field, and it's just not happening for him. He's overdriving the car, making mistakes, trying to gain through pushing the rules, suffering from big mood swings, etc. It's being written up in the press that he's feeling the pressure of driving for Ferrari, but I think it's actually more he's feeling the pressure from trying to restore his reputation after 2007. He's never been able to reconcile the fact that he was matched by a rookie, and this was supposed to be the year where he'd right that wrong and beat everyone in the Ferrari.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Myurr,

If you contest that Heikki had the same treatment as Hamilton, then we should stop debating.
There is no question however that Lewis is the better driver.

[Giblet]

Alonso's car in 2005 and 6 was very good and very well suited to his style.

He actually changed his style to suit that car, which is why he was faster than Fisi. His snap turn in was abandoned for Mclaren as it wasn't the best way to drive that car.

The car was very good, but don't forget he lost the mass damper and had to suffer and claw back time.

[vall]

Like it or not he beat Alonso in his debut year, albeit by the slimmest of margins. This was a rookie matching a two time world champ with several years of experience. I actually suspect that this is playing on Alonso's mind significantly this year - he's had a couple of awkward years at Renault where he could rightly blame the car, but this year was supposed to be his big return to the front of the field, and it's just not happening for him. He's overdriving the car, making mistakes, trying to gain through pushing the rules, suffering from big mood swings, etc. It's being written up in the press that he's feeling the pressure of driving for Ferrari, but I think it's actually more he's feeling the pressure from trying to restore his reputation after 2007. He's never been able to reconcile the fact that he was matched by a rookie, and this was supposed to be the year where he'd right that wrong and beat everyone in the Ferrari.

considering all the misfortunes Alanso has had this year, he is still in the title hunt with only 47 point (18 on the old system) behind LH (who was very fortunate quite a few times this year, no)

[dannyteasdale]

Haha so basically this thread is saying, its down to the car. That lady luck is shining on him and the are not raping him with penalties.
(ahem previous seasons)

Im lucky, maybe I should jump in the car and drive?

It has nothing to do with the driver....

[vall]

he is not at the moment. And how could he be desperate? He get fantastic gifts, even from places he could have never imagined. To mention a few:

1. Turkey. The two bulls collide gifting his the win. Not without the help of McLaren who stopped Button from overtaking him.

They colided on their own then? And Button was hot on the redbull's heels?
Blindly skip over the facts.

2. a few starts when he gained extraordinary places

becuase of good launch and car placement. Button did this in silverstone.

3. Canada. 2 backmakers totally screwed up Alonso gifting LH a win he did not deserve.

Alonso was Boss food, backmarkers or not. He would have been passed on the next lap.
Hamilton was not gifted the win. Alonso would have been gifted because of Hamilton's poor pitstop.

4. Valencia. well, no need to say anything here

a good strong drive, would have been second and Alonso third, without the SC. Poor start by Alosno; seems he's starts to sweat whenever hamilton is near him on the grid .

5. Silverstone. Takes out Vettel, but God said LH's front wing will not be damaged. Also, Alonso makes real bad start.

Vettel took his self out, watch race edit on formula1.com

6. His main competitors have many misfortunes (The bulls, Alonso....)

becuase they're not good enough!

7. has been given a few warnings by the stewards, but no penalty so far.

That's the only way he can be beaten, penalties. Alonso loves to cry for justice, he never took matters in his own hands on the track when it comes to Hamilton, in the last 4 years. hamilton even owned him last year, with a couple overtakes, when the 2 of them were battling in crap cars at the back of the grid.

1. they were fighting for a position and collided. Are you claiming it was because LH was behind them, and were scared by death and panicked? Give me a brake!

2. good launch in important, but the rest is pure luck. Once he gained like 8 positions, and he was just driving straight! Somehow all the cars went off his way (scared by your account ).....

3. "He would have been passed on the next lap" . There is no evidence to support that what so ever. It is a mere speculation. LH had no chance to overtake Alonso if it was not for Chandrock movign ahead of Alosno. Again, a backmaker ruined Alonso's fast laps before his second pit. Without that Alonso was going to re-join ahead of LH clearly.

4. "... seems he's starts to sweat whenever hamilton is near him on the grid". Again pure speculation. Without the SC or with adequate action of the stewards, the point difference between LH and FA would be smaller. And you never know, Alonso might be able to overtake LH. r put pressure on him and he makes a mistake.....

5. "took himself out". Give me a brake. Fact is Vettel got puncture because LH touched him. It could have caused big damage to LH wing also, but it did not happen.

6. this I will not comment on. It is a pure BS statement

7. penalties are to keep the competition within the rule. If you brake the rules too often, the stewards need to spank you and bring you back on right track. Has not happened to LH so far. He has like 3 reprimands hanging on him, no?

[vall]

Haha so basically this thread is saying, its down to the car. That lady luck is shining on him and the are not raping him with penalties.
(ahem previous seasons)

Im lucky, maybe I should jump in the car and drive?

It has nothing to do with the driver....

for me, the performance is determined at least ~70-80% by the car

[marcush.]

if you sat a complete honk into the car you´d be 20or more seconds off the pace..
In raw speed there is not much to choose between those chaps in F1 (apart from the 6 tenths of Alonso of course).Look at the rear of the field :
Trulli ,Kovalainen and Glock are not meteoric drivers so maybe they lack 2 or 3 tenths to
Hamilton ...now lets compare Glock to grassi or the two HRT drivers .. and we are at around 1 second worst case in terms of personal speed ..

And to put this into perspective:

I happened to engineer a Ferrari challenge car in Silverstone a few years back ,when Bruno Senna made a guest appearance...with my drivers a good 1 second per lap slower than him in Race ...accounting for him having tested for two days in the car and my driver first time ever in Silverstone +never driven a Ferrari Challenge car with paddle shift...but being a former DTM champ and my second driver the reigning Trofeo Champ...these two were not quite slow drivers in the field but still could not bridge that gap for a simgle lap.. in silverstone.
Funny he lost almost five seconds in every pitstop..compared to us ....but who cares when nobody is really challenging you...

[Washngo]

It's a bit of a misconception that Hamilton tested extensively for McLaren before he got the race seat. In actual fact he did very little, no more than a two day test as far as i remember before getting announced as a race driver, following that he tested pre-season the same way as everyone else did that year.

These days because of regulations there is less pre-season testing, but nevertheless the rules were the same for everyone that year. Hamilton was a rookie in 2007 and that is that.

He tested 6 days at the end of 2006, In Sep and Oct. This is easily a few x 1000 km

erm... so what is your point? As I said, he did very little, no more than a two day test as far as i remember before getting announced as a race driver, following that he tested pre-season the same way as everyone else did that year.

Hamilton was announced as race driver in September. He did his testing after being announced as a race driver.

[myurr]

Myurr,

If you contest that Heikki had the same treatment as Hamilton, then we should stop debating.
There is no question however that Lewis is the better driver.

You brought up Heikki as saying that the 09 McLaren made him look good towards the end of the season, the points and my memory say otherwise.

Heikki wasn't treated badly by McLaren and was certainly not held back with team orders, but I do freely admit that sometimes the latest parts were only fitted to Lewis's car and he often got first pick on strategy. At the time Heikki really wasn't delivering even when they had equal machinery so I see no problem in that - I'd really rather it didn't happen, but considering the hole McLaren were trying to dig themselves out of I can understand them rushing parts out to the lead McLaren.

[myurr]

Like it or not he beat Alonso in his debut year, albeit by the slimmest of margins. This was a rookie matching a two time world champ with several years of experience. I actually suspect that this is playing on Alonso's mind significantly this year - he's had a couple of awkward years at Renault where he could rightly blame the car, but this year was supposed to be his big return to the front of the field, and it's just not happening for him. He's overdriving the car, making mistakes, trying to gain through pushing the rules, suffering from big mood swings, etc. It's being written up in the press that he's feeling the pressure of driving for Ferrari, but I think it's actually more he's feeling the pressure from trying to restore his reputation after 2007. He's never been able to reconcile the fact that he was matched by a rookie, and this was supposed to be the year where he'd right that wrong and beat everyone in the Ferrari.

considering all the misfortunes Alanso has had this year, he is still in the title hunt with only 47 point (18 on the old system) behind LH (who was very fortunate quite a few times this year, no)

Edit: ugh post went weird. I'll write it again

Are you seriously suggesting that Alonso is in the form of his life and is the same mistake free and relentless charger we saw in his championship winning years?

Most of Alonso's misfortune have been either his or his teams making. Yes he's had some bad luck, but he's also made more mistakes than in previous years and his form has been full of peaks and troughs. The peaks have kept him vaguely in the championship hunt (would you put money on him to beat both McLaren's and both Red Bull's?) but for whatever reason he is not salvaging solid finishes on the bad days and taking frequent podiums and wins on the good days.

[myurr]

It's a bit of a misconception that Hamilton tested extensively for McLaren before he got the race seat. In actual fact he did very little, no more than a two day test as far as i remember before getting announced as a race driver, following that he tested pre-season the same way as everyone else did that year.

These days because of regulations there is less pre-season testing, but nevertheless the rules were the same for everyone that year. Hamilton was a rookie in 2007 and that is that.

He tested 6 days at the end of 2006, In Sep and Oct. This is easily a few x 1000 km

erm... so what is your point? As I said, he did very little, no more than a two day test as far as i remember before getting announced as a race driver, following that he tested pre-season the same way as everyone else did that year.

Hamilton was announced as race driver in September. He did his testing after being announced as a race driver.

Either way I guess all that was stopping Piquet from matching Alonso was a 6 day test.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Myurr,

If you contest that Heikki had the same treatment as Hamilton, then we should stop debating.
There is no question however that Lewis is the better driver.

You brought up Heikki as saying that the 09 McLaren made him look good towards the end of the season, the points and my memory say otherwise.

Monza Pole? Didnt make him look good no?

Factor in his 5 retirements to Lewis 1, without seeing the reasons, could be error or Mechanical. And the 1 stop strategies Mclaren loved to give Kovalainen....remember that?