Why do drivers still have to set up a car?

[raymondu999]

Hey all. Just wondering here. Why is it that drivers still have to spend time setting up a car? I mean, sure, ok, those who have sims at their homebase can set up their wing levels and basic stuff through their simulator. But with their computing power able to simulate circuits, able to perform CFD, wouldn't it just be better and faster for a computer to perform millions of gajillions of calculations and find out the fastest setup for their car to the nearest thousandth? Then the driver would just have to set up slight changes in order to suit the balance of their car to their driving styles.

[vall]

Hey all. Just wondering here. Why is it that drivers still have to spend time setting up a car? I mean, sure, ok, those who have sims at their homebase can set up their wing levels and basic stuff through their simulator. But with their computing power able to simulate circuits, able to perform CFD, wouldn't it just be better and faster for a computer to perform millions of gajillions of calculations and find out the fastest setup for their car to the nearest thousandth? Then the driver would just have to set up slight changes in order to suit the balance of their car to their driving styles.

who said that they don't do exactly this? At least the top teams..

[mep]

I guess 90% of setup is precalculated when they arrive at track.
Btw isn’t it more the engineer who setups the car?

[higgi91]

RE: Engineer. Yea you can hear this sometimes on the red button in practice for example (mostly lower teams) "The rear feels loose around turns X and Y". Then I presume that the engineer would recognise what could help. Of course the drivers knows a fair bit about setup too.

Dan.

[RacingManiac]

Hey all. Just wondering here. Why is it that drivers still have to spend time setting up a car? I mean, sure, ok, those who have sims at their homebase can set up their wing levels and basic stuff through their simulator. But with their computing power able to simulate circuits, able to perform CFD, wouldn't it just be better and faster for a computer to perform millions of gajillions of calculations and find out the fastest setup for their car to the nearest thousandth? Then the driver would just have to set up slight changes in order to suit the balance of their car to their driving styles.

Pretty sure thats exactly what they do now...they fine tune their setup at the track to driver preference and condition...

[Just_a_fan]

Why do drivers set up their cars? Because simulation tools are only an approximation and because the car and track vary with time. Something that works on Friday morning may not work so well for qualifying.

We often hear the phrase "the track is a living thing" and this is just a poetic way of saying that the interaction of car and track is a moveable feast which only the driver can really understand - at least, the really good ones do; the 'ordinary' ones know something isn't quite right but aren't sure what.

A really good engineer will get the car very close to ideal but only the driver can call the final shots. Car setup is not about hitting the peak on some graph - it's about the driver's confidence. How often do we hear a driver use phrases such as "the car was undriveable" (ok, that's a sentence but you know what I mean). The car obviously isn't undriveable - after all they've just driven it - but they lack the confidence in the car's responses to inputs to really push it to the edge. In effect the car feels like it is behaving non-linearly. In order for the driver to extract the maximum from the car he has to have confidence and thus he needs to set it up to his requirements.

[marcush.]

in an ideal world the driver will tell you what the car feels or better yet what he would like from the car to be able to gain some time and the trackengineer interprets this into changes to the car ...
very often I happened to stumble across seasoned drivers who came into the pits already KNOWING what the car needed in terms of adjustment...and invariably you know this will be a long day...as you will have to convince him by first taking the
route he was demanding only then to ease him into the right direction to make the car quicker only after a while he will realise that you understand what he needs and then you can start to work...some just can´t learn and inevitably will waste your time...

[HVS5b]

Err, cos different drivers have different styles and require unique settings to maximise what the car can deliver to them in return.

What works for one driver may not be best for the other.

I'm sure certain basics can be predetermined on the simulator, but not the full bhuna.

[Richard]

There's also human psychology at work.

Tell a driver that he has a new wing, or you've tweaked the settings, and he'll crank out a faster lap, even when there is no material difference in the car.

[marcush.]

There's also human psychology at work.

Tell a driver that he has a new wing, or you've tweaked the settings, and he'll crank out a faster lap, even when there is no material difference in the car.

oh me... tell a driver nonsense and he will lose all faith in you and nothing you propose will work ...
Honesty and openness is very important when it comes to driver and engineer relationships ..it takes one wrong word to hit ground zero.
But in essence you are right .Especially when the driver has the perception the car is converging towards being a unit with him every minute step in the right direction
will yield time gains not easy to explain.

[RacingManiac]

There's also human psychology at work.

Tell a driver that he has a new wing, or you've tweaked the settings, and he'll crank out a faster lap, even when there is no material difference in the car.

Hence why to follow the Carroll Smith way of doing things, always run the car at the end of the day with what you started with. It'll be a no BS test to see if a) the car improved, b) the driver improved, or c) all the feedback were BS or not.

The key is though the driver has to be somewhat in the dark about things.

[Jersey Tom]

Why? "Closed loop" data is a bitch to sort through and doesn't always tell you everything.. or anything.

Good driver feedback = win.

[PlatinumZealot]

T driver feedback is sorta closed loop too. He is the feedback loop in the "driver confidence control system" heheh. Some drivers have a really large "band pass filter" though Alonso Kubica etc. You give them junk and they can give you a nice feedback. Other drivers though, like Button and Massa the car has to be perfect! More work for the engineers.

[speedsense]

Why? "Closed loop" data is a bitch to sort through and doesn't always tell you everything.. or anything.

Good driver feedback = win.

That all depends on how good the person or persons is at analysis. "Everything" is all there, it's just a matter of whether it gets lost in translation or not translated at all.

Good driver feedback minus data feedback will not beat good data feedback with driver input to the data.

A driver with terrible feedback and an excellent data analysis can outperform a driver with only his own feedback available, even one who has excellent recall.

It is possible to separate the driver, from his inputs to the car, his inputs because of the racetrack and the car from the driver inputs and the car from the track, given the "right" sensors in place. I've yet to see a F1 car without them.
The causes,the amount, the location and the length of time of any handling situation can be accurately tracked and analyzed, even before the driver pulls into a pit stop. He simply will be repeating what the analysis already shows...

Sorry but the amount of information that can be had, far out performs what the human brain is capable of ....driver's with great feedback isn't a requirement to win anymore and hasn't been for 15 years. IMHO

[Gatecrasher]

Sorry but the amount of information that can be had, far out performs what the human brain is capable of ....driver's with great feedback isn't a requirement to win anymore and hasn't been for 15 years. IMHO

So we should setup all cars the same independant of driver input/style? Sorry but the biggest variable is the driver, not the car. The fastest car is the one that suit's the driver best, not the other way around.

Wosrt Case Senario: If I took out a 2010 F1 car and a go cart, I would be quicker in a go cart as I would be able to get tires and brakes up to temps easier and I would not be intimidated by the power and handling. The flappy paddle gears, the 30 different buttons and modes to deal with would drive me crazy. Keep it simple.