German GP 2010 - Hockenheimring

[marcush.]

As I've said before in other threads, there is only one way to actually prevent team orders, and that would be to allow teams to race only one car!

Even that wouldnt completely stop it, there have been cases of inter-team team orders in the past

quite interestingly williams was involved then...so far for proper sportsmanship.

[Just_a_fan]

Vettel once again had a problem to get off the line cleanly and was passed by both Ferraris.

It looks like Vettel's start problem is his insistence on trying to chop the guy on P2. He did it in Silverstone, he did it in Hockenheim and both times the guys in P2 and on the second row capitalised. If he just kept the thing pointing straight ahead he'd probably get the first corner cleanly.

He appears to be trying to emulate Michael's technique from the Ferrari years but he isn't making it work; in fairness, it didn't always work for Michael either.

[marcush.]

the chopping technique only works when your start is good enough to clear the third position guy ..I think the proper ways is to play hardball in the first corner ,like Hamilton does.
To me Vettel does not have that subconscious awareness ,of what is going on around him and he seems ,as webber, not really predict what others are going to do ,but having a fixed expectation...a fixed plan they are not at ease to modify or adapt quickly.
Neither Vettel nor Webber really made an impression on track ..underachieving again ;the pressure is getting on them now.

[Pedro]

Fastest laps

[Pedro]

Pit-stop summary




Stints



Green - supersoft; black - hard tyre


Source: F1news.cz
http://f1news.cz/novinky/35288-v-boxech ... -mercedes/

[marcush.]

Virgin has made a significant step now.
I wonder if schumacher would have been better off staying out longer on the softs or
starting on the primes...and change to softs with 20 laps to go.

[marcush.]

Pitstop stationary time is a huge spread with MERC constantly quickest...the one thing they are really good at this year..

[Miguel]

What double penalty did Alonso get? Your bias is overflowing mate.
Also why are you quoting the Canada 2008 GP? What's the relevance? You're too vague.

• First he was told to yield to Kubica, which he had started doing (telemetry evidence: turning revs down) when the Renault failed. Then he was awarded a drive through. This has also been confirmed by the Renault guys live on the BBC.
• Don't worry about my bias. I've got some proper checks in my code and it doesn't overflow. We're safe of evil NaN's.
• In Canada, one of the BMW drivers let the other through. They also finished 1-2. That was perhaps the best shot Heidfeld has ever had.

Someone mentioned in the few examples that I posted a while ago that, hmmm, maybe those team orders made sense. The rule doesn't specify sense at all. Furthermore, what happened to Barrichelo's switch to a 3-stop strategy in Montmeló last year? Team order? What about the times in which one teammate loaded more fuel in the first stop than the other in order to jump him at the second stop? Is that not a team order that interferes with the result?

My take is that this was done as an attempt to leave one Ferrari driver with a realistic shot at the title. Someone said that the points difference between cars no 7 & 8 was 7 points. That's not true. It was 30. Massa was a full 78 points behind Hamilton. That's 3 races and then some. Alonso is now 34 points adrift. Let me remind you that even after Germany both Kubica and Rosberg have more points than Massa.

[rifrafs2kees]

Great race for Ferrari. "Team orders" aside, they finished 1-2. Period. They have worked hard and intelligently to develop their car. It was faster than Red Bull today, and far faster than McLaren

Successful F1 teams often have clear #1 and #2 drivers. And, on the other hand, many successful F1 teams have had supposedly "equal #1s." It's up to the team to decide what they want to do. The exception: when one driver is clearly inferior to the other.

I like Massa a lot, and we often hear that he is a favorite among Ferrari team members. But -- perhaps because of his accident last year -- his performance makes him Ferrai's #2 driver. He should get out of Alonso's way -- or improve his performance. I regret Ferrai reniewed his contract. I'd rather see Kubica.

Looking forward to Hungary!

You'd rather see Kubica take Massa's place only if u want to see Ferrari have a miserable season. Kubica and Alonso, who seem to be best friends right now, would probably be very hostile to each other if Ferrari continued their endless obsession for bending over for Alonso at Kubica's expense. And I doubt Kubica would have yielded for Fernando had he been in Massa's shoes. But you can bet, Alonso would expect that of Kubica. Afterall, he expected that kinda servitude from Fisi, Hamilton, and now Massa.

[myurr]

You'd rather see Kubica take Massa's place only if u want to see Ferrari have a miserable season. Kubica and Alonso, who seem to be best friends right now, would probably be very hostile to each other if Ferrari continued their endless obsession for bending over for Alonso at Kubica's expense. And I doubt Kubica would have yielded for Fernando had he been in Massa's shoes. But you can bet, Alonso would expect that of Kubica. Afterall, he expected that kinda servitude from Fisi, Hamilton, and now Massa.

And of those three only one decided to fight Alonso and dispute his number 1 status, and look how that ended. Kubica wouldn't give any quarter to Alonso's petulance and arrogance, which would lead to an almighty bust up that would tear the team apart as happened at McLaren. I've never been a Ferrari supporter but I wouldn't wish that upon any team.

[segedunum]

• First he was told to yield to Kubica, which he had started doing (telemetry evidence: turning revs down) when the Renault failed. Then he was awarded a drive through. This has also been confirmed by the Renault guys live on the BBC.

Pardon? He didn't yield the position at all nor was he in any process of giving it back. Ferrari were told several times to give the position back to Kubica and they simply drove on as if nothing had happened. There is no telemetry evidence to support this nonsense whatsoever because he was pulling away from Kubica.

Alonso was given a penalty which would have happened regardless of whether Kubica was in the race or not. If you don't give the position back immediately, which was the understanding when all of this happened to Hamilton in 2008, then you run the risk of a drive-through.

[Giblet]

Wrong race, wrong topic, off topic, etc.

[Paul Oz]

Does anyone think that there is there anything bigger going on than the 'simple' team orders penalty? Ferrari continue to deny that any team orders were given - so presumably thats what they told the stewards. The stewards have fined them - so obviously disagreeing with Ferraris version of events..... so are Ferraris going to be hauled over the coals like Mclaren for lying to the stewards?
IMO - thats the only thing I have a gripe about. Not the team orders, which IMO they should have admitted like men, and I accept goes on anyway regardless largely noticed by most. But the fact that theyre lying to everyone about it when its clear to everyone what they did!?
Interesting that team members with issues over team descisions are using the team radio to make public now 2 races on the bounce. I presume thats why Rob Smedley made it so clear? Otherwise, why on earth don't they agree on a secret code word and get Massa to twitch off on a corner and loose a place that at least looks semi plausible?
Shame, coz I think Smedleys a top lad. He'd do Lewis a lot of good.

[komninosm]

So what? That was a very good answer in my view to a silly question. Vettel could not have known half of what the reporters knew about the race. How can he make a judgement without a review and some briefing?

After the boring race I should probably run the Hockenheim 1997 DVD again and watch Berger win a proper race.

His answer about the incident was correct, he didn't know. His obvious digs on Webber with the talk about crashing were the shameful part I was alluding to. [-X

I actually dislike that finger waving smiley you seem to be fond of. Do you think you need take this illusionary moral high ground?

The question was silly as I said and Vettel handled it nicely. He was invited to criticize his competitor and make a judgement while he was having insufficient info about the whole affair. The reporter should have known better than asking this in the first place. Vettel tried a bit of humor on this and you seem to have missed that. Have a beer and relax. Seb is probably the last person whose opinion on the incident had to be taken seriously at the time of the conference. So no harm is done if he goofed a bit around.

The smiley wasn't directed at you but Vettel. And he deserved it because he didn't make a harmless joke, he took a swing at Webber. That's what he did and anyone can see it. Can't you?

[komninosm]

Yes, but he was in a title fight (well, kinda) last year, as was he since the start of the season. He has done stellar starts before under pressure too. Japan 2009, perhaps?

It's different when you're the outsider, the underdog. This year Red Bull started off very dominant. And they screwed up. A lot. And now Ferrari caught up in speed and McLaren is ahead in points. He is the one who is getting desperate, not Hamilton as that silly other thread (in this forum) postulates.