I'm supporting not-Alonso

[siskue2005]

The only thing we don't know is what was discussed before the race. Maybe Massa was supposed to yield the spot without being told, and Alonso was burning his fuel up when he might need it later to fend off a Red Bull.

It can be easy to take a drivers words out of context, when we are not part of that context and have no idea what is truly going on in the team.

All we can do is make snap decisions based on little bits of data we may or may not have.

so why didnt he?
because Massa defended beautifully there
and if Alonso gave up so early why did he tried to go on the inside in the next race [-X

[Raftaar]

Hello everyone!
First we had the 'fanboy ying-yang' thread, and now be have the "BitterBoy Bashing" thread here. I expected this winching & whining from many F1T forum members, so I didn't even open the forum till this afternoon (and also F1Fanatic.co.uk, Kieth Collentine is at his sarcastic best in such situations), I thought we probably had passed the "venom towards Alonso" phase by now. Now I know I was wrong!

Maybe, the question posted to Alonso by one of the journalists at yesterday's post race press-conference is just appropriate :

" (Carlos Miquel - Diario AS) Fernando, do you feel that some people are worrying because you are back in the championship?

FA: Maybe it seems like this, yes. "

[gibells]

Quote of the day came from Button.

"I can't wait to see the pass. Must be a real classic."

[myurr]

So all you Hamilton supporters, if Hamilton was in that Alonso Ferrari on Sunday and Massa go the instruction to let Hamilton through to ensure the team improves their chances of winning the Drivers F1 title would you all be as anti-Hamilton???? I think not.

I am a big Hamilton fan and if the race was manipulated in that way by McLaren then I would be just as appalled and critical - the exceptions being: when it is clear that one driver is out of the championship, when one car is nursing a problem, or when the cars are on different strategies. Technically they would all still be in breach if it was a team order so I would be critical of the team should they try to force a driver to concede a place in such circumstances BUT a gentlemanly driver would let their team mate through in those circumstances and I would support that driver for making that choice.

What Ferrari did on Sunday was say to Massa that he wasn't going to be allowed to fight for the championship. Massa looked like he was finally recovering his form, took the fight to Alonso and beat him fair and square. Alonso then whined on the radio and, connected or not, the team then asked Massa to move over and let Alonso through. Alonso was not that far ahead of Massa on points prior to the race - less than a race win (so within 10 points on last years scoring system) - so way too early to start backing one driver over the other, a single DNF could switch their places.

[doopie2you]

So all you Hamilton supporters, if Hamilton was in that Alonso Ferrari on Sunday and Massa go the instruction to let Hamilton through to ensure the team improves their chances of winning the Drivers F1 title would you all be as anti-Hamilton???? I think not.

I am a Hamilton fan, and if the team let Lewis overtake Button with a team order to Button! Then i would be like: That is soo stupid, now you will get DQ! But i bet that the people who watch f1 independence or are not for McLaren will be not-Hamilton to!

What Ferrari did was wrong, and the fact that Alonso was so happy after the race, and reacted on the pit radio with: come on guys this is ridiculous. Is reason enough for me to be Not-Alonso!

And if the FIA won't DQ Both drivers, i think that AGAIN formula 1 will look bad. When they DQ them, the whole press on the world will say that the Fia is not Ferrari International Assistance

[WhiteBlue]

I obviously lost my Alonso fan status a long time ago when he shot his mouth off at Rossi and refused Rossi's challenge of having a go on bikes and in F1 and Rally cars to see who is faster on agregat.

This incident simply confirms that Alonso isn't a team player and will use anything in the arsenal to get his way. People who think that Alonso is innocent and the disadvantaging of Massa was a team decision should look at the facts.

After the first attack on Massa Alonso cries for team order and starts to post slow lap times. Smedley tells Massa explicitly that he is allowed to race Alonso. Some minutes go by and all the sudden Smedley breaks the team order to Massa in a way that tells the world he has just been royally shafted. What do we think has happened in the meantime? I would bet my old tennis shoe that the horse whisperer in Maranello got on the horn to Stefano and told him to let Alonso pass by team order.

Unless I'm badly mistaken Domenicali was not prepared for the situation and did not consider it before the race. He was surprised by finding the two Ferraris in the lead with the wrong driver ahead. In my view Alonso's actions prompted an intervention from Maranello and Domenicali, Smedley and Massa were all forced to improvise. Massa and Smedley did not find it easy to bend over for the treatment they got and you could see it.

So bottom line of this sorry spectacle is: Ferrari were caught out and Alonso pushed them into a decision which will damage and split the team. He wanted the seven points from Massa badly and did what was needed to get them.

Alonso is a great and talented driver but I would not touch him with a barge pole as a team principal unless I had his personal slave as a second driver lined up.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

This whole thread is just here to bait alonso fans.
Nothing constructive will come of this thread, only argument after argument.

[myurr]

Unless I'm badly mistaken Domenicali was not prepared for the situation and did not consider it before the race. He was surprised by finding the two Ferraris in the lead with the wrong driver ahead. In my view Alonso's actions prompted an intervention from Maranello and Domenicali, Smedley and Massa were all forced to improvise. Massa and Smedley did not find it easy to bend over for the treatment they got and you could see it.

You're not going to like the comparison but I actually see Domenicali in a similar light to Horner. Both seem like reasonable and likeable guys and in other circumstances I wouldn't have a problem with them, but neither are strong team leaders and there is a perpetual feeling that the strings are being pulled by others and that they are having to react and try to justify those interferences whether or not they agree with them. I doubt either are weak people, you don't rise that high if you are, but their power as team principals is undermined by those in the background that wield the real power.

This latest issue at Ferrari seems little different - Domenicali, under pressure from a petulant driver unhappy at being behind his team mate and no doubt with his boss on the phone telling him to do something, reacts. Same as Turkey where Horner was probably told (speculation alert!) to get Vettel past and tried to engineer it through fuel settings. Horner tried to comply with the rules but in doing so failed to communicate properly to his drivers, who promptly tripped over each other, whilst Domenicali was forced to communicate something that had not been prepared and decided to try and lie their way out of it.

[myurr]

This whole thread is just here to bait alonso fans.
Nothing constructive will come of this thread, only argument after argument.

Then don't read it... both of you

[WhiteBlue]

Needless to say that this is off topic and that I do not agree with your pet theory. There are worlds between Mateschitz and Montezemolo in terms of team order policy.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

This whole thread is just here to bait alonso fans.
Nothing constructive will come of this thread, only argument after argument.

Then don't read it... both of you

Hate to say this, but howcome contributors to this site get told to behave a certain way, yet threads like this pop up within a few days of the mods having told one off?

[myurr]

Needless to say that this is off topic and that I do not agree with your pet theory. There are worlds between Mateschitz and Montezemolo in terms of team order policy.

As you well know my problem is not so much with Mateschitz but his liaison/minion/underling Dr Marko.

[ajams]

Quote of the day came from Button.

"I can't wait to see the pass. Must be a real classic."

Hmmm, yes Jenson - maybe Ferrari should have brought Massa in for another pitstop. Like Brawn did with Barrichello last year.

Amazing how self-righteous a lot of people in the sport are getting about this - from Horner's coments yesterday (utter hypocrisy, given Red Bull's recent open favouring of Vettel on the basis of a very narrow lead over Webber in the drivers championship), to Whitmarsh referring sarcastically to Ferrari's history of using team orders (it's not like McLaren would ever do anything like that is it? Oh no...).

Even Eddie Jordan has climbed down off his high horse today; having proclaimed the result a 'theft' immediately after the race, he is now admitting having used team orders himself on many occasions and calling for the law against them to be abolished.

As for this 'anyone but Alonso' thing, fine, people can support who they like, but I think it's foolish in the extreme to assume that other drivers or teams would pass up the opportunity to strengthen their challenge in order to hold onto the moral high ground.

F1 has always been ruthless and ultra-competitive. It was that way long before Alonso arrived and it will be that way long after he's retired.

[doopie2you]

The fun thing is that Ferrari was the most upset at Valencia when Hamilton overtook the SC, and still got P2 out of it. And Ferrari fall back. They said the race was manipulated xD. That is just like saying you don't want somebody to jump of the bridge in the water and then do it himself

[ajams]

The fun thing is that Ferrari was the most upset at Valencia when Hamilton overtook the SC, and still got P2 out of it. And Ferrari fall back. They said the race was manipulated xD. That is just like saying you don't want somebody to jump of the bridge in the water and then do it himself

It would appear that Ferrari have learned the lesson from Valencia that you're better off breaking the rules and seeing what comes of it rather than sticking to the letter of the law and being disadvantaged.