Is Hamilton desperate or what?

[ringo]

Bahrain was .451, Malaysia .258, Spain .821, Europe .134, Britain .397.

Say no more, that's the reality at any given time. Pace is Pace, qualifying or in the race.

Now i feel bad, because i don't want any bad feelings in the team. We need button to keep pushing and try his best to beat Hamilton, regardless of the gap.

The score card is 8-3, 9-2 on performance. No way that one top driver is taking that beating from another one. Never saw it in Massa-Kimi pairing, neither Alonso-Hamilton, Webber-Vettel, not even Kubica-Heidfeld.


What i want someone to explain to me, is.
How does Button close the gap in the race, can we have a technical explanation?
Is he driving harder than Hamilton in the race, or is he half assing it in qualifying?
Something technical like brake application, fuel weight, tyres please.

[Super racing]

Button closes the gap because LH is cruising for the second half of the race while JB is pushing like hell... and Hamilton is slowing down to buzz the pit wall at the end and wave to the crowd... JB pushing hard just to keep his place or be in the picture.

There is nothing techical about it... JB does conserve fuel and tires earlier in the race by either being behind an inferior car or just falling behind the lead pack, but he uses it back up at the end.

[PlatinumZealot]

Yep I agree. With these regulations any comparison of race pace is nearly impossible without the two drivers pushing like mad in open air. Which has never really happened. That is the main thing I miss with refueling. The only real comparison this year is qualy. And Hamilton has Button's cards with that one. Button has only outqualify Hamilton when he screws up. When i say screws up I mean like loosing 4 tenths slower in a sector than the normal time he can do the sector.
He screwed up in:

Australia (Post traumatic stress from Police and cold tyres),
Malaysia (Aquaplaning, no driver can fight aquaplaning),
China (really poor sector on cold tyres)
Germany (Barely any practice, little setup time, Poor sector)

On any day Hamilton strings his lap together without obvious sector drops, Button is 0.4 seconds to 1 second away. Which is HUUUUUGE for two elite drivers.

Again, however, this Regulations suit Button very well. He can cruise to the finish behind Hamilton and be 3 points away.

[rifrafs2kees]

Yeah even I think that graphical representation of Button and Hamilton's performances does not give a true reflection of what happens on a given sunday. As someone said, first laps and the last few laps skew the "effective average lap". And Jenson's pit have done so much better than Lewis'. However, I stand by my point that they are the best pairing mclaren could have asked for AS LONG AS the regulations stay this way. If they were to go back to the days of refueling when drivers did more pushing and little conservation, I suspect Button would be miserable. But I like the way things look right now. If anyone had said Lewis' team mate, by this time of the year, will be second to him, trailing by just about 15 points, we'd have been guessing Raikkonen or Kubica. Let's be happy; we don't see one of them waiving his hand for an easy race win. That's good enough for me.

[marcush.]

I have never debated or even questioned Hamiltons ability to get a bit more out of the package .
reality is ..its not something worth anything if you do it randomly .
It is simply like Tennis or Golf ... there are key points you just have to make to be on top:
decent qualy +excellent starting is one key point to success.

flawless pitstops and pit/tyre strategy is the second

Not dropping the ball or keep out of trouble is another one

Not abusing the car when there is no gain to be made

when there is scope for making up places in duell make the moves stick

etc etc..

considering this Button scores quite well as a package ,nothing more nothing less ..

[Just_a_fan]

What has been interesting to see is how Hamilton has adapted to the tyre situation. There was lots of noise before the season that "Hamilton is hard on tyres" and yet we're not seeing him have problems like he did in his first F1 season. The key is that he has not lost any of his speed in adapting his style.

Button is renowned for a smooth style and Hamilton was always seen as agressive but the two of them are getting broadly similar results from the tyres.

I think Button has struggled slightly with his style being too gentle at times and this has compromised his qualifying pace relative to Hamilton. His race pace is much closer, however, presumably because him and his tyres come together over a number of laps.

Watching the German race, for example, Button and Hamilton were trading sector times back and fore. This is something I've noticed at other races too; Button's fastest laps are usually right there with Hamilton's but he is usually fighting from a weakened initial position.

I thought Hamilton would destroy Button this year. To Button's credit, this has not happened at all. Even now, there is no way I would bet on which of them will finish the season higher in the title rankings.

[marcush.]

that is what its all about.
Button has already stated that the legacy he left over for schumacher ...guiding the development of the Brawn car towards a understeery characteristic does indeed hamper
Michael a lot.
So on the reversal ,Button has to suffer from a Mclaren that is on the nervous side at the back when squeezed a trait Hamilton is aparently very happy with...
so the difference is that the Macs is basically responsive and nervous in feedback whereas the Merc is sluggish and slow...

[internetf1fan]

Well Hamilton IS destroying Button. How many times has Hamilton beaten Button in races compared to vice versa? Had his wheel not failed in spain he would have been still a bit ahead. Of course, Button had that failure in Monaco but he was running 11th, so the max he could have possibly got was 5th or 6th?

[Just_a_fan]

'Destroying' him would mean being almost uncatchable in the title race at this stage of the season not just a few points ahead.

He is beating him but not 'destroying'.

[marcush.]

Well Hamilton IS destroying Button. How many times has Hamilton beaten Button in races compared to vice versa? Had his wheel not failed in spain he would have been still a bit ahead. Of course, Button had that failure in Monaco but he was running 11th, so the max he could have possibly got was 5th or 6th?

and what position achieved Hamilton in that race? but ifs and whens don´t count in life and more so in F1 ...
Fact is Button is is more often than not close enough to Hamilton come race end to
question Hamiltons allaround superiority.the difference is not tenths but hundredth per lap average.
Hamilton is overall the better qualifier in this car ,but no points are awarded for outright speed.

[internetf1fan]

Well Hamilton IS destroying Button. How many times has Hamilton beaten Button in races compared to vice versa? Had his wheel not failed in spain he would have been still a bit ahead. Of course, Button had that failure in Monaco but he was running 11th, so the max he could have possibly got was 5th or 6th?

and what position achieved Hamilton in that race?

5th. So the best Button would have been able to get was 5th under normal circumstances if not for his DNF. While Hamilton would have got 2nd if not for the DNF. That's +8 pts for Hamilton.

Btw, when was the last race Button beat Hamilton? China?

[marcush.]

ok ,I give up on this officially .As Button will according to this forum not score any more meaningful points this year in his state of disarray and being busy waving flag in
admittance of his defeat ,being distroyed ,i feel it does not make sense to support his case anymore .Facts are facts.
Anyone offering eating firesuits ,helmets or whatever for the impossible case Button would end the season ahead of Hamilton?

[Super racing]

Marcush, can you honestly say that the battle between LH/JB is as even as between MW/SV? or FA/FM or Even NR/MS? Disregarding points standings, the only disparity between team drivers larger than the lopsided LH/JB duo is RK/VP and maybe TG/LDG. Even Hulk is closer to RB than JB is to LH. So basically LH is whooping JB like 3 established/rated drivers are whooping rookie teammates.

Answer this please, even if LH was struck with a string of mechanical DNF's and JB ended the season with more points than him, would that convince you that JB was a better driver? There is no point to arguing JB's case, he is being dominated by his teammate unlike any WDC in recent memory(MS excluded for 3.5 year layoff), domination of a WDC we have not seen since Senna whooped Prost.

This was the worst weekend LH has had this year driving wise with self inflicted errors and yet JB still could not beat him... what else is there to say but complete and utter domination... MAX MOSLEY STYLE.

[vall]

don't forget the drive the same car, which happen to be fully designed to suit LH's driving style.

[vall]

This was the worst weekend LH has had this year driving wise with self inflicted errors and yet JB still could not beat him... what else is there to say but complete and utter domination... MAX MOSLEY STYLE.

I want to see what radio massages were transmitted to Button around the time LH was told to save fuel