I'm supporting not-Alonso

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myurr
myurr
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Re: I'm supporting not-Alonso

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:Nipo, you may feel that way, but to call it an "invlaid point" is stretching it.

"I'm supporting not-Alonso" is pretty juvenile and crass in itself. I post on here to see if I can shed light on some peoples ignorance. Some people will argue moot points that Alonso's character is flawed.
You may say that we're all influenced by the English media and are mindless zombies following their line, and whilst true for some it's a crass exaggeration and insult to many others. All you need to do is watch the races to form a pretty bad impression of Alonso, utterly independent of any media spin. You may feel it's juvenile to criticise people and dislike their actions, but in reality it's human nature and respect has to be earned. I have no respect for a driver willing to blackmail others in order to be given preferential treatment because he cannot beat his team mate on track fair and square. I have no respect for a driver who would go into a double waved yellow flag zone on track at full throttle in order to try and gain an on track advantage. I have no respect for a driver who repeatedly whinges and whines whenever he fails to get his way and when his team mates don't leap out of his way on track.

In short I have no respect at all for Alonso as a person. He may be among the quickest drivers ever and he has put in some stunning drives in his time, but for every world class drive there is at least one example of petulance and childish behaviour.
JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:Well I would say if it was that flawed he wouldnt be in F1.
Nor would Ferrari have picked him up to lead their charge. You see it opens up a whole can of worms when you start criticising Alonso. Because the "character flaw" isnt endemic to Alonso, it has many proponents within F1.

But Alonso makes a good Dick Dastardly, because a)he isnt english b) he couldnt care what the media thinks c)Had a well publicised spat with Mclaren and Hamilton.

Naturally there are other drivers who have lied, crashed into others etc, but they are somehow viewed as more noble.
Say what you will of Alonso mate, but he isnt unique and nor is he alone.
His behaviour isn't unique and none of the top drivers are saints, they wouldn't get to where they were if that were the case. However his infractions include the biggest of all time, in my book, in the blackmail attempt, and his flaws appear to be more publicly visible and more frequent than with his competitors.

Schumacher was everyone's bad boy because of his uncompromising approach, his arrogance, and his on track incidents but I can't remember any smouldering feuds, betrayals, or the sulking that Alonso is famous for. For all his sins, and I have always been one of his biggest critics, at least Michael was always loyal to those around him through thick and thin and as such you always had a feeling that away from the track he was probably a decent enough guy. Alonso's own actions cause people to doubt that.

marcush.
marcush.
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Re: I'm supporting not-Alonso

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+1 in fact ,I have never heard Schumacher as critical towards his team as this year...and still he is very nice ,compared to Rosberg who openly slashes the team .

and rememember what Benetton did in those years ..blackflag ignoring ,some electronics manipulation was always rumoured ,etc etc ...racebans...you name it..it would have been easy for him to say oh thats only team not me..

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: I'm supporting not-Alonso

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Myurr
You mentioned the blackmailing twice in your post as reason to dislike Alonso.
Fair enough. BUT, where you there when it happened? Did you see Alonso's contract?
Was Alonso to blame for holding the stolen information in the first place?

Compared to, I dont know, Hamilton? Who lied to cover what happened at Oz?
Blackmail and Lying are equally distasteful in my book. Yet Alonso still bears that cross....

@ Marcush
When did Alonso ever criticise Ferrari, Renault or Minardi? Why use his time at Mclaren as a yardstick? Would you use Lewis Hamilton criticism of Mclaren in Australia as a yardstick? It from this year in fact, not from 2007......

Apples with apples, and pears with pears.
More could have been done.
David Purley

vall
vall
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Joined: 04 Nov 2008, 21:31

Re: I'm supporting not-Alonso

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myurr wrote: You may say that we're all influenced by the English media and are mindless zombies following their line, and whilst true for some it's a crass exaggeration and insult to many others. All you need to do is watch the races to form a pretty bad impression of Alonso, utterly independent of any media spin. You may feel it's juvenile to criticise people and dislike their actions, but in reality it's human nature and respect has to be earned. I have no respect for a driver willing to blackmail others in order to be given preferential treatment because he cannot beat his team mate on track fair and square. I have no respect for a driver who would go into a double waved yellow flag zone on track at full throttle in order to try and gain an on track advantage. I have no respect for a driver who repeatedly whinges and whines whenever he fails to get his way and when his team mates don't leap out of his way on track.
1st bold text: Actually, if you watch the races, Alonso is one of the most fair drivers on track. He has never been a jerk on track. Yes, sometimes he waves hand at backmaker when they block him. So what? Everyone does that. But I do not remember Alonso running rivals off track or putting dangerous unnecessary moves. Compare this with MS (and LH if you wish) who would regularly squeeze drivers off track. Compare with LH's moves at Spa 08.

2nd bold text: this is a speculation. It is widely reported by the British media, but we only have Ron's word on that (probably even not in a straight words but in a form of vague statements). There is no evidence that ALosno ever demanded No.1 status. One lie repeated 100 times becomes true.

3rd bold text: what he did back then was wrong. But a yellow flag could mean a small incident like somebody stapped off track and may not be not that dangerous to drive fast. Do you have a respect for a driver who blatantly overtakes the SC to gain advantage (probably deliberately blocking the driver behind)

imightbewrong
imightbewrong
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Re: I'm supporting not-Alonso

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vall wrote: 1st bold text: Actually, if you watch the races, Alonso is one of the most fair drivers on track. He has never been a jerk on track. Yes, sometimes he waves hand at backmaker when they block him. So what? Everyone does that. But I do not remember Alonso running rivals off track or putting dangerous unnecessary moves. Compare this with MS (and LH if you wish) who would regularly squeeze drivers off track. Compare with LH's moves at Spa 08.
Actually, that is not 100% the case. Example: Spa 2007, pushed out his own teammate (Hamilton)

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raceman
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Re: I'm supporting not-Alonso

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@vall

=D>
quite some fair statements.

grip
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Re: I'm supporting not-Alonso

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This whole NOT-Alonzo thing has come up because of the team orders issue.I believe that this has to do with the F1 sport as a whole. There is a conflict in the sport in that the constructors title is not as important as the drivers championship. If we put this in football terms(my soccer),it is not all the players from the team that scored the winning goal who are the winners but only the goal scorer and management. In fact the rest of the players would be losers. If the reality was less emphasis on the driver championship and more on the constructors title we would see much more team play between team drivers. Perhaps the only solution is to limit teams to one driver.

marcush.
marcush.
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Re: I'm supporting not-Alonso

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grip wrote:This whole NOT-Alonzo thing has come up because of the team orders issue.I believe that this has to do with the F1 sport as a whole. There is a conflict in the sport in that the constructors title is not as important as the drivers championship. If we put this in football terms(my soccer),it is not all the players from the team that scored the winning goal who are the winners but only the goal scorer and management. In fact the rest of the players would be losers. If the reality was less emphasis on the driver championship and more on the constructors title we would see much more team play between team drivers. Perhaps the only solution is to limit teams to one driver.
that triggered the thing ,but really it was his nonsense talking after the race that put people off.

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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What exactly did he say to put you off Marcush?
More could have been done.
David Purley

jwielage
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Re: I'm supporting not-Alonso

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myurr wrote:All you need to do is watch the races to form a pretty bad impression of Alonso, utterly independent of any media spin.
JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:3rd bold text: what he did back then was wrong. But a yellow flag could mean a small incident like somebody stapped off track and may not be not that dangerous to drive fast. Do you have a respect for a driver who blatantly overtakes the SC to gain advantage (probably deliberately blocking the driver behind)
This is a classic example of what I was talking about in my last post. It is far too easy to point out questionable on-track behavior of a driver we do not support, then use these actions as evidence of a "character flaw". On the other hand when it comes to the driver we support this type of behavior is either dismissed as "fighting spirit" or just plain swept under the rug and forgotten. ALL DRIVERS MAKE QUESTIONABLE ON TRACK DECISSIONS FROM TIME TO TIME, its part of the sport.

Full disclosure... I am an Alonso fan, but by no means do I think he is perfect. His perceived flaws are partially why he is so good, the same can be said for Hamilton and Schumacher.

I'm growing tired of the attitude of certain individuals posting on this thread. Can you not see the double standard in your thinking? I know its hard, but I challenge you to step outside your emotional view of this subject for a moment and look at only the facts.

Everyone from time to time posts illogical, emotionally driven messages on this sight, including myself. But at least have the decency to admit that you might be blinded by your own opinion.

Objectivity should be one of the cornerstones of this site. If you want to post highly opinion based, slanderous remarks take it over to pF1.com, because it doesn't belong on F1technical
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so" - Mark Twain

jwielage
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Re: I'm supporting not-Alonso

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JohnsonsEvilTwin, FYI any frustration in my last post was not directed at you. I was using your quote as a counterpoint to a blindedly one sided coment. That said, I hope the logic in my previous post was clear enough that this message wasn't neccissary.
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so" - Mark Twain

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: I'm supporting not-Alonso

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jwielage wrote:JohnsonsEvilTwin, FYI any frustration in my last post was not directed at you. I was using your quote as a counterpoint to a blindedly one sided coment. That said, I hope the logic in my previous post was clear enough that this message wasn't neccissary.
I didnt write what you quoted...... 8)

But I agree with what you are saying. :D
More could have been done.
David Purley

jwielage
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Re: I'm supporting not-Alonso

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:wtf: :oops:

I knew that... I was just seeing if you were awake. My appologies, I hope I didn't offend you.
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so" - Mark Twain

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: I'm supporting not-Alonso

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jwielage wrote::wtf: :oops:

I knew that... I was just seeing if you were awake. My appologies, I hope I didn't offend you.
Im good :) no worries ....
More could have been done.
David Purley

imightbewrong
imightbewrong
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Re: I'm supporting not-Alonso

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Webber tells it like it is, as always:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85638