I'm supporting not-Alonso

[jwielage]

Regarding the media, I think we all agree that facts alone don't sell papers... Juicy stories, gosip, T&A, heros and villans are what sell papers. Why would we expect any different when it comes to F1 coverage. I'd like to think that we F1Technical readers do a better job than most of sifting through the BS, and I think we do for the most part.

I'm not sure how much longer this thread will go on, but I must thank you all as it has been a wonderful distraction from work. =D>

[Shrieker]

Alonso, ever the cry-baby when his team mate is as fast as him. Sent Mclaren going down in flames when the team did not comply to his request to slow Hamilton down, and now Ferrari can't afford to disagree with him because they very well know what's gonna happen if they do.

[grip]

What are you saying? Ferrari fears Alonzo? Come on lets get real!

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Alonso, ever the cry-baby when his team mate is as fast as him. Sent Mclaren going down in flames when the team did not comply to his request to slow Hamilton down, and now Ferrari can't afford to disagree with him because they very well know what's gonna happen if they do.

Yea it was Alonso that was responsible for Mclaren's problems in 2007.....


Apart from the fact a McLaren employee recieved the info from a Ferrari employee and other high up engineers also got to know of the the data.
So we can therefore deduce that, had this NOT happened Alonso couldnt blackmail anyone!
So blaming him is tantamount to blaming a passenger for sinking ship!

Mclaren made their bed, Alonso slept in it. How you can blame Alonso is breathtaking....

[myurr]

Alonso, ever the cry-baby when his team mate is as fast as him. Sent Mclaren going down in flames when the team did not comply to his request to slow Hamilton down, and now Ferrari can't afford to disagree with him because they very well know what's gonna happen if they do.

Yea it was Alonso that was responsible for Mclaren's problems in 2007.....


Apart from the fact a McLaren employee recieved the info from a Ferrari employee and other high up engineers also got to know of the the data.
So we can therefore deduce that, had this NOT happened Alonso couldnt blackmail anyone!
So blaming him is tantamount to blaming a passenger for sinking ship!

Mclaren made their bed, Alonso slept in it. How you can blame Alonso is breathtaking....

That's like blaming the manufacturer of a gun for Alonso pulling the trigger. There were other dubious goings on in McLaren particularly with Coughlan, but Alonso was central, knew fully what was going on, and he decided to attempt to blackmail nobody else. He's not a 5 year old kid, he is responsible for his own actions.

[vall]

That's like blaming the manufacturer of a gun for Alonso pulling the trigger. There were other dubious goings on in McLaren particularly with Coughlan, butAlonso was central, knew fully what was going on, and he decided to attempt to blackmail nobody else. He's not a 5 year old kid, he is responsible for his own actions.

it is funny how double standards are applied!!!!!!! During the lie-gate LH fanboys were blaming McLaren for asking LH to lie, he was a loyal to McL, that's why he did it, etc,etc, bla,bla. Then he was not responsible for his own actions, he was misled by his team. Ha, I don't buy that.

I am not sure he knew the whole story. He was getting information from PdlR and knew it was coming from Ferrari, but that's about it. When the scandal broke, of course at that point he knew exactly the information came from, but probably not before that.

[myurr]

That's like blaming the manufacturer of a gun for Alonso pulling the trigger. There were other dubious goings on in McLaren particularly with Coughlan, butAlonso was central, knew fully what was going on, and he decided to attempt to blackmail nobody else. He's not a 5 year old kid, he is responsible for his own actions.

it is funny how double standards are applied!!!!!!! During the lie-gate LH fanboys were blaming McLaren for asking LH to lie, he was a loyal to McL, that's why he did it, etc,etc, bla,bla. Then he was not responsible for his own actions, he was misled by his team. Ha, I don't buy that.

I am not sure he knew the whole story. He was getting information from PdlR and knew it was coming from Ferrari, but that's about it. When the scandal broke, of course at that point he knew exactly the information came from, but probably not before that.

Lewis was wrong to lie, accepted responsibility and apologised. I initially defended him until the full story came out and then I was critical. No double standards.

The FIA evidence at the trial showed that Alonso knew of the data, knew it was from Ferrari, and discussed it in detail with DLR. Regardless of who knew what, and this is the bit you insist on skirting around, Alonso on his own with no one else involved decided to blackmail the team. This wasn't a lie to the stewards to try and gain a place whilst being urged to do so by his team, this was a criminal act. Blackmail is illegal, at least in the UK, and is considered a very serious crime.

Why do you continue to argue that Alonso has no responsibility for his actions?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Being asked to lie when you know full well what happened is the same as blackmailing a thief.
Both are big moral screw ups, we could debate which is worse, but I think that would really signal the end of constructive debate.

The only difference here is one is for and the other is against Mclaren, and the drivers had personal gain in both events, so its not as if Hamilton did what was asked out of loyalty to McLaren either.

Both should have the same reputation, But............

[Shrieker]

Being asked to lie when you know full well what happened is the same as blackmailing a thief.
Both are big moral screw ups, we could debate which is worse, but I think that would really signal the end of constructive debate.

The only difference here is one is for and the other is against Mclaren, and the drivers had personal gain in both events, so its not as if Hamilton did what was asked out of loyalty to McLaren either.

Both should have the same reputation, But............

BS.

Lewis was SO WRONG when he lied to the stewards, his biggest blunder to date. The car in front made a mistake and ran off the track, and he felt he was entitled to that position and LIED to the stewards, which he shouldn't have had to; if only Mclaren weren't feeling mad max's breath up their @ss .

You're comparing this act to blackmailing ?

I hope it doesn't happen to you one day. If it does, a good piece of advice; do what Ron Dennis did. Even if you lose a lot, you won't regret it when you look back some day.

[andrew]

What are you saying? Ferrari fears Alonzo? Come on lets get real!

No, but they fear a certain major sponsor which happens to be Spanish and was instrumental in bringing a certain Spanish driver to the team.

[myurr]

Being asked to lie when you know full well what happened is the same as blackmailing a thief.

Not in the eyes of the law or in the majority of peoples opinions. What Alonso did was an order of magnitude worse. Lewis lied, served his penalty, apologised and that should be it. Ferrari, Alonso and Massa are lying at the moment claiming that there were no team orders - is that as bad as blackmail?

I know you're desperate to defend Alonso, for whatever reason, but there is simply no defending his blackmail attempt. You can continue to try and drag other drivers down to his level, but in reality It is the single worst act any driver has perpetrated in the history of F1.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I know you're desperate to defend Alonso, for whatever reason, but there is simply no defending his blackmail attempt. You can continue to try and drag other drivers down to his level, but in reality It is the single worst act any driver has perpetrated in the history of F1.

Myurr,

As I have stated on many occasions, Alonso does not tick all my boxes.
I have a favourite in Kobayashi.

And I will repeat what I posted earlier, for the benefit of all.

Both are big moral screw ups, we could debate which is worse, but I think that would really signal the end of constructive debate.

Lying in british courts carries 7 year maximum and blackmail 10.
Both are unsavoury and both are not becoming of a great champion. Liar or blackmailer.....hardly good eh?

I wont debate the ethics of the blackmail or lying further than this post, suffice to say Alonso carries his cross and Hamilton is still the golden boy.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

What are you saying? Ferrari fears Alonzo? Come on lets get real!

No, but they fear a certain major sponsor which happens to be Spanish and was instrumental in bringing a certain Spanish driver to the team.

More for Alonso then. Whos to blame for that Andrew?

A certain prancing horse...

[andrew]

Annoyed Spanish driver = annoyed Spanish driver = Spanish driver walking away = Spanish sponsor walking away.

The motive to let Alonso past was nothing more than a financial motive.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

So are Ferrari a corporate cash cow? Never!
Mclaren in the same boat with Hamilton
Mercedes with Schumi

Welcome to modern day F1.

And if there is no Alonso do you really think Ferrari would struggle to find a replacement?
If they do it would be bad times indeed.