Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
myurr wrote:You also need to consider that if the safety car falls at a time when it is advantageous to pit immediately after it returns to the pits then you'll still get artificially high congestion which may even be worse as the pack will have been compressed at that time.
Most likely you would get less cars entering the pits. It is not unreasonable to stay out for a couple laps to try and overtake after the pit-stop.
While with SC free stop you're most likely loose by not pitting (Webber was an exception because of RB6 pace).
They should stop all the tyre change nonsense which is done for artificial drama only and the problem is gone. Nobody will pit for fuel or tyres. Tyres are good enough for a full race as we have seen and only the stupid rule forces tyre changes.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best ..............................organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
I think David Coulthard had it best in the BBCi Red Button F1 Forum. With the MES ECU and the zonal thing that is in place for the FIA, if there is a car thats in the zone of realease the car will not be released. And as for the wheel nuts, same thing, managed by the ECU, if the nuts arnt attached in a way, the ECU will not allow the driver to select gear and go.
Both systems can and will work.
But one thing im against is the lap the SCD is shown on the timing boards, drivers pit in. The leader should have to pick up the Safety Car and only after the first lap to Sector 2 say, the pit then becomes open and you can pit then. With that id also make it illegal to have stacking take place, one car at a time for each team only.
ESPImperium wrote:The leader should have to pick up the Safety Car and only after the first lap to Sector 2 say, the pit then becomes open and you can pit then.
Wouldn't that increase congestion as all the cars would be bunched?
ESPImperium wrote:I think David Coulthard had it best in the BBCi Red Button F1 Forum. With the MES ECU and the zonal thing that is in place for the FIA, if there is a car thats in the zone of realease the car will not be released. And as for the wheel nuts, same thing, managed by the ECU, if the nuts arnt attached in a way, the ECU will not allow the driver to select gear and go.
Both systems can and will work.
But one thing im against is the lap the SCD is shown on the timing boards, drivers pit in. The leader should have to pick up the Safety Car and only after the first lap to Sector 2 say, the pit then becomes open and you can pit then. With that id also make it illegal to have stacking take place, one car at a time for each team only.
I'd fully support such a system - there's still time to introduce it for next year.
ESPImperium wrote:The leader should have to pick up the Safety Car and only after the first lap to Sector 2 say, the pit then becomes open and you can pit then.
Wouldn't that increase congestion as all the cars would be bunched?
Didnt you read, only allow one car into the pits for every team at a time, and this is pre determined by the team and submitted to the FIA. So before each race, each team has to declare what car will pit first, but not declare the lap it wil pit on. So for instance you could have teams split it for race 1 for driver X and race two for driver Y.
ESPImperium wrote:The leader should have to pick up the Safety Car and only after the first lap to Sector 2 say, the pit then becomes open and you can pit then.
Wouldn't that increase congestion as all the cars would be bunched?
Didnt you read, only allow one car into the pits for every team at a time, and this is pre determined by the team and submitted to the FIA. So before each race, each team has to declare what car will pit first, but not declare the lap it wil pit on. So for instance you could have teams split it for race 1 for driver X and race two for driver Y.
So you have a predetermined order, which will unnecessarily penalise some drivers as it doesn't allow the teams to adapt, plus instead of having all the drivers pile in throughout the lap you have them all pile in over two laps. It's better than all in one batch but still worse than just keeping the pits open throughout.
We should not have to see pits stops in the first place. They are artificially forced on the drivers. Take a way the bullshit rule and the safety car will become completely uncontroversial. Why can people not see that?
Assumption, because they want the chaos and the lottery for entertainment purposes.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best ..............................organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
while I can see how the release control of a car via GPS&SECU could work (just),
I would be really interested to see/hear how the ECU would "know" if a wheel is
secured properly. I don´t think that´s realistic
I personally don´t mind the pitstops, makes it more of a team sport IMHO, and
get´s the pitcrews/mechanics involed in the action. So that they are not just the
unsung heroes behind the scenes.
For safety reasons, I would not mind, if they just close the pitlane (exit) during
SC periods, as it´s done in some touing car series around the world.
Now, that nobody can run out of fuel, it should not be a big issue.
But as always there are different ways to skin a cat, everything has it´s pro`s & con`s
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver." - Colin Chapman
“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci
of course you could place a load cell on the hubface and measure clamping force ,when the wheelgun is released...if its not ok the engine will die...
to implement soemthing like this into the current system would be asked a little too much ..you need to implement a strategy for when a sensor fails...need a wireless sensor that stands the level of vibration and heat.. easier said than done .
The wheel nut thing is done via a sensor that is either on or off in DTM seemingly. Id have to look into it in a little more detail tho for a definitive answer.
The pit lane thing, im not sure what can be done that is fair.
WhiteBlue wrote:We should not have to see pits stops in the first place. They are artificially forced on the drivers. Take a way the bullshit rule and the safety car will become completely uncontroversial. Why can people not see that?
Assumption, because they want the chaos and the lottery for entertainment purposes.
Actually for me it's because I want to see shorter life tyres that force some strategy on the drivers rather than turning it into an endurance event. We already have too many long life parts.
As long as I worked in the DTM, the mechanic would press a button at the wheel gun to
signal, that he is finished. 4x ready signal would drop the car (on board air jack system)
automaticly. Some teams used a 5th signal from the Lollipop man/pitstop observer to account for traffic in pitlane. If the mechanic would press the button in error ( and this happened) the car would be still released.
The DTM system was aimed to reduce the reaction time between the mechanics at the wheel, the guy on the "spike" (airjack release) and the lollipop man to give the go.
The driver was told to drive off when the car drops.
O.k. it´s 5 years since I stoped working in DTM, so maybe things have moved on.
I can see what is technical possible, but to define "wheel is secured correctly" you would need to measure a clamping force/torque etc. and that in a rotating part.
Sure everything is possible, the question is at what cost, and what you do if a sensor fails/ miss reading.
What happend in Hungary is bad/sad but it´s part of the sport. IMHO
It´s not that these things happen every race.
The same was with the refuelling, once in a while a car would catch fire - motorsport is still dangerous.
I don´t think they should overreact to that wheel thing. It´s a bit of a black swan/freak event. IMHO
Similar things have happend in DTM, and once in a while a car is going to lose a wheel on the track.
No teether system in the world will stop it.
It´s just one of these things ........ - unfortunately
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver." - Colin Chapman
“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci
looks like the RBR guys use a similar system in F1
see the cable (connector) which runs parallel to the air line/hose.
Looks like the switch/button is on the RHS of the wheel gun in the carbon protection.
Maybe they hat a chat to the Red Bull teams in DTM
Would be smart, and explain why they are also making good/fast pitstops in general.
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver." - Colin Chapman
“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci
747heavy wrote:As long as I worked in the DTM, the mechanic would press a button at the wheel gun to
signal, that he is finished. 4x ready signal would drop the car (on board air jack system)
automaticly. Some teams used a 5th signal from the Lollipop man/pitstop observer to account for traffic in pitlane. If the mechanic would press the button in error ( and this happened) the car would be still released.
The DTM system was aimed to reduce the reaction time between the mechanics at the wheel, the guy on the "spike" (airjack release) and the lollipop man to give the go.
The driver was told to drive off when the car drops.
O.k. it´s 5 years since I stoped working in DTM, so maybe things have moved on.
I can see what is technical possible, but to define "wheel is secured correctly" you would need to measure a clamping force/torque etc. and that in a rotating part.
Sure everything is possible, the question is at what cost, and what you do if a sensor fails/ miss reading.
What happend in Hungary is bad/sad but it´s part of the sport. IMHO
It´s not that these things happen every race.
The same was with the refuelling, once in a while a car would catch fire - motorsport is still dangerous.
I don´t think they should overreact to that wheel thing. It´s a bit of a black swan/freak event. IMHO
Similar things have happend in DTM, and once in a while a car is going to lose a wheel on the track.
No teether system in the world will stop it.
It´s just one of these things ........ - unfortunately
On the BBC commentary Coulthard described the current DTM system as having a torque sensor built into the wheel hub that would activate when the wheel was properly in place. I'm sure that such as system could be incorporated into F1, but I also agree that we shouldn't get too upset about what happened. People have been changing wheels in F1 for a long time now and this is the first time such an incident has happened - it was just bad luck.
