Mercedes GP - Inauguration and 1st season

[segedunum]

haha thats not possible to do

I just don't see how you could possibly police a mandatory weight distribution. Ross Brawn is talking out of his backside there.

[Morteza]

Or was it Mercedes Bernie was talking about when he said we might loose one of the new teams that disgraces F1??

Maybe , I remember Zetsche said that they would quit F1 if they didn't get the result they want which was winning. I just don't get it why Mercedes bought Brawn Was it because they were champions last year? Looking back at last year we see that Red Bull was performing better and reliability cost them championships(I'm not saying why they didn't buy Red Bull). What I mean is they had 44% of McLaren and they could have taken over the whole company years ago as Bernie once said in an interview with Formula1.com in which Haug was also present. On paper it was a dream team but in action it's awful. Mercedes are so careful about where they spend their money and it makes me feel this year is not giving them any profit so let's quit F1?! Any idea?

BTW, It is the former BAR/Honda/Brawn team. Brawn did what no other team had done in their maiden year and won both championships. BAR and Honda were never top teams and I don't think the staff at the have changed since then. The team is the same but the name now needs winning.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

If the team is still around next year, which I doubt, it will probaby be under the AMG-name or whatever, this is too embarassing.

F1 is simply not what it used to be, getting kudos from beating Ferrari doen't ring the same way anymore.

xpensive,

Personally I think there is still value in F1 for Marques of Mercedes and ferrari's stature.
They will be here next year all right.
4th best in a season where they openly f**cked up the weight and aero isnt a disaster. What is poor is the teams inability to pin point a problem, and then solve it.

My theory on this is that when you mess up somthing as basic as the weight distribution, then stick a god awful aerodynamic brick of a nose onto it the issue becomes a "moving" target.

I have discussed this with Marcush already, but Brawn admits his team got the tyre specs wrong.
When your weight has increased to from the 650kgs to 750kgs at the start of a race, this problem becomes multiplied. Your tyre simulations will be wrong meaning everything you do will be a stab in the dark.

This is what is happening.

There is no other explanation other than 1. their tyre modeling is poor and 2. that the weight distribution problems can rear its head at any moment and for any length of time in specific conditions.

In essence this means the W01 will reach its peak far sooner than any of its rivals, and will continue to demonstrate some unpredictable characteristics.
Schumacher has said many times it depends how the car reacts to the track and temprature changes. He should know, but with things set in stone, there is only so much you can change.

If the driver position is so much as 3 cm too forward, there may be imbalanced for the whole season as these things cannot be change.
Whee base change will help, but when that happens the entire concept needs to be re thought.

If it happens again I will say that they are rubbish, but with Brawn in charge of a team that won the WDC and WCC the year before and then getting a last minute saviour in Mercedes for this year, 4th is about as good as it would get.
especially consdiering the f1 powers of Ferrari and McLaren and the Newey penned RB's.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

[. Mercedes are so careful about where they spend their money

No Money from Daimler Gmbh has been put in. What has been done is that Mercedes have leveraged themselves into the team using Mclarens pay off money.
That was an initial £40 million according various sources, although the figure varies from source to source by a couple of million.

Aabar investments(middle eastern investment company heavily involved in Daimler) picked up the 35% Foo mercedes gain control of the team, and Fry and Brawn maintain 24.9%.

Mclaren are in effect paying for the team. Petronas Mig Deutsch post are all contributing a vast amount to cover expenses, to a point where it is said they are breaking even.

Mercedes need to dig deeper to get the right people in the right places.
Segedunum may say it isnt so easy, but its a lot easier with money than with none at all.
Brawn will know where to spend it is the difference.

[xpensive]

I can't believe it's as simple as losing out on weight distribution, hey, if I got a microngram wrong on the balance-machine my engineers will let me know this for the rest of the week, s**theels they are.

I think this is a combo of complacecny and incompetence, after a winning season you find yourself with a rotten car and not a clue what to do about it.

[ggajic]

But did you say why they were rubbish?

Did you offer a deep insight into that troll of a comment? No?
So i guess that they were right to remove it then.....

Puting lap down on 7x WDC is not enough proof that they are rubbish? Comment over radio with Webber (does it feel good) is I suppose not enough proof that they are completely incompetent to produce competitive car. They are now even falling behind Williams who were joke from 1997. (except maybe in some period of 2003. with BMW engines). Red Bull caught them up during second half of 2009. season instead of forward they are constantly moving backwards. Race results are speaking enough.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Race results are speaking enough.

2009 WDC and WCC champions.

[Pierce89]

http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-139583.html

"If the weight distribution remained free, then some would get it right by accident while others get it totally wrong. That's what we want to avoid,"

my translator shows something like this: "we screwed it, we do not know how to make it right, and we gonna do anything to prevent others from doing it better than we"

That's exactly what Ross said. He's just trying to remove 1 more area they're getting beat. When he gets it down to the engine being tho only variable between the cars, then mabe they'll win.

[Pierce89]

McLaren still have a veto on new engine customers and it was McLaren that stopped the Red Bull Mercedes partnership.

Ross Brawn has restated that he doesn't think Mercedes can supply another team, ergo they desperately don't want Red Bull to have their engine. That would put them under more pressure than McLaren, certainly the way things are now.

at only 8 engines a year they have the manfufacturing capability to supply the whole grid. In then early 2000 one team would use over 100 engines a year easily.So if they could do that, they have the abilty to supply Red Bull. Ross & Norbert,and Ron all are trying their best to keep a Merc lump out of a Newey Red Bull. Neither team would ever win another race if Newey had the Merc.That being said I think Merc could go a good way to sloving their problems with a highly developed and highly effective front wing. They stole that thing right out of the 70's

[Boost]

They've already blown off Red Bull's advances towards the Mercedes engine and that decision needs to be justified considering that Mercedes would have won most of the races this year. I get the impression that they're wavering already.

McLaren still have a veto on new engine customers and it was McLaren that stopped the Red Bull Mercedes partnership.

Adrian Newey didn't want the Merc engine either. Its bulkier overall packaging would have messed with his aero.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Red Bull tried to get the F-duct banned.
Mclaren tried to get the flexi wing banned.
Ferrari got the "slot" in the diffusor banned.

Welcome to F1, this is not endemic to Mercedes or Brawn, its the nature of the F1 beast.

And before we start silly accusations like "He's just trying to remove 1 more area they're getting beat", he needed unanimous support from FOTA before getting the mandate.
Each team has their eye on the other, what this rule change means is that 1 team will not run away with the championship due to striking lucky.
Pirelli have done no testing remember so they cannot give accurate specs...

[segedunum]

No Money from Daimler Gmbh has been put in. What has been done is that Mercedes have leveraged themselves into the team using Mclarens pay off money.

That's just as bad. The Mercedes board already look as if they are fairly detached from the team (the existence of the team depends on them winning) and they'll quite happily drop it without a second thought. Why bother when they could get their engine and their badge into a winning car now? Norbert Haug's face tells its own story.

Segedunum may say it isnt so easy, but its a lot easier with money than with none at all. Brawn will know where to spend it is the difference.

Try telling that to Toyota or Honda. Ross Brawn has certainly got his work cut out but without the right people I just can't see anything happening. He'll have to get on the phone to Rory Byrne or something and offer him anything he wants. This is several times more difficult than it was to get Ferrari winning again.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

That's just as bad. The Mercedes board already look as if they are fairly detached from the team (the existence of the team depends on them winning) and they'll quite happily drop it without a second thought. Why bother when they could get their engine and their badge into a winning car now? Norbert Haug's face tells its own story.

Does it now? You see Rosberg is sitting quite happily in the championship, whereas Schumacher is not.
Mercedes have a foil in Schumacher, he brings exposure, and also draws attention away from an underperforming car. Had it been Heidfeld this story would have got more inches. Mercedes knew the score before taking the team on board.
Haug has basically defended Schumacher from day 1 instead of the car.
Mercedes will be here next year and the year after that wether you or I like it or not. And how is getting 100% exposure for a marque such as Mercedes bad?
Mclaren made millions out of Mercedes, and then wanted their own car. The split was inevitable, are you saying Mercedes shouldnt spend?
Becuase if they dont spend more they are finished.....

[aral]

(quote)Mercedes will be here next year and the year after that wether you or I like it or not. (quote)


That seems to a very authoritive statement. Daimler AG have already intimated that they would consider pulling out if they got no results this year. It is the BOARD of Daimler AG who will make any decision, and not Norbert Haug or Ross Brawn! So how on earth can you make such a statement.

Further, Mercedes split with McLaren due to the fact, that Dennis would not hand over a controlling interest to them, and it was not due to Dennis wanting to produce their own car. They could just as easily used a Merc engine.

But isn't this thread meant to be about the actual car?

[xpensive]

Either way, the team will die next year if they don't start to dominate McLaren all of a sudden, simple as that, but that will inself take an unforseen amount of money and engagement.

F1 is not a hobby for Daimler-Benz.