Driver styles/preferences

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raymondu999
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Driver styles/preferences

Post by raymondu999 » Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:45 pm

Hey all. I think we know that many drivers prefer different characteristics of car handling. Is there some place where it's all consolidated together?

If not, I'll start. We know that:

These guys prefer a pointy, tail-happy car:
Hamilton
Schumi
Vettel(?)
Massa(?)

These guys want the tail to just stay put:
Webber(?)
Button
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by zmiles2 » Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:21 pm

I agree with wher eyou put Button. He is the smoothest driver on the circuit.
I'd agree with Webber too.
I think you could put Hamilton and Vettel in any car and they would drive the "wheels off it" and find a way to get to the top. You might hear them talking about how bad the car is/was on the team radio during the race or in interviews after the race, but they are 2 examples of drivers that can use their aggresive style in any car.
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by raymondu999 » Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:32 am

Yes. I always thought that Webber/Button would NOT actually prefer understeer, but it's justthe fact that an understeery car is a lot less likely to oversteer that appeals to them. However, I don't quite understand how you can manhandle an understeering car. Yes Vettel and Hamilton are aggressive enough to seemingly counter their cars' handling deficiencies, but so far we've mostly seen that in the form of oversteer and not understeer, no?
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by godlameroso » Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:46 am

Button likes a well balanced car, that is not too over or understeery. When he has a good car balance, to him the car becomes more predictable and his smooth style shines. When there's under or oversteer however, he has to compensate and can't use his style.

Alonso IIRC likes an understeery car
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XN9m6Ok5HcM[/youtube]

Look how he throws the car into the corners with very little corrective steering.
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by PlatinumZealot » Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:50 am

Vettel and Webber are huge question because the good balance of the redbull. There just hasn't been a time where you see them complaining about the car or mention correcting the behaviour of the car.

From my observations Alonso, Hamilton and Rosberg DEFINITELY can master cars of varying behaviour. I always look forward to their comments on the car behaviour and most of the time they always figure out how to set up the car to drive around the problems.

They can drive calm as Button: save tyres, save fuel, drive "wild:" overtake, drive understeer, drive oversteer, they even have that on demand speed burst in qualifying when ready. They are truly multiple style drivers.
Alonso IIRC likes an understeery car
Well he really liked the 2007 mclaren.. and Hamilton liked his setups in the first half of the season very much.
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by raymondu999 » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:35 am

I think Alonso can just really steer any car, but he will tend to gear it towards understeer so he can choose to either go smoother, or to counter the tail-happy effects of oversteery driving.
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by FW17 » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:06 pm

This is off topic but this is really something

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdtKTlJx ... ure=search[/youtube]

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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by FW17 » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:12 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1iuhQJc ... ure=search[/youtube]
Montoya and Alonso were guys who really made some super quick mid-corner opposite lock corrections

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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by EAKMotorsports » Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:43 pm

good topic. anyone knows about Senna, Prost and Piquet driving style?
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by godlameroso » Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:01 pm

Piquet wasn't that good of a driver if you ask me.

Prost was very similar to Button, with a kind of Kubica car control

Senna was very much like a mix of Hamilton Vettel and Alonso all rolled into one.
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by timbo » Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:25 pm

Senna was always working really hard at the wheel. It's really tough to compare him with modern drivers, as requirements were so different back then, and some of the tricks he used — twitching the throttle, downshifting too early to induce entry-oversteer, are probably of no use in modern F1.
I haven't seen so much "nerve" in driving since then.

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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by 747heavy » Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:27 pm

interesting topic / discussion
maybe we should define what we mean with understeering and oversteering car, so that we can all follow and are on the same page.
It is maybe also worth to think about, how a driver "feels" understeer and oversteer?
The answer to this question may gives a clue, why some drivers are better at one conditon then the other. (this has little to do, with their "driving talent/abillity" as such, IMHO)

we should also be "careful" not to mix "car response time/rate" with "car behavior at the limit of traction/grip" (understee-neutral-oversteer)

A "pointy car" does not necessary need to be "tail happy", at the same time.

From a pure engineering point of view both understeer & oversteer are "bad", because
it means that one axle (front or rear) reaches it´s limit of traction/grip before the other and thereby limiting the overall performance of the car.
In pure engineering terms a neutral car will allways be the "fastest".

Please also keep in mind, that it is difficult to "see" a car understeering if the understeer is small.
A good driver will just "know" that this is the limit, and don´t drive faster.
So it (the understeer) becomes the "limiting factor", but you can´t really "see" it from the outside or from onboard videos.
The car/driver is just slow(er), then some others.
You can only "see" understeer in more extreme form, when the driver keeps trying/pushing despite the understeer, making the US worse in the process. IMO
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by PlatinumZealot » Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:37 pm

Is there scientific data that shows neutral car is faster in all cases though? I am not too sure about it. Sometimes getting the car to point in a certain direction, though using less grip can get you through the corner faster in say a low speed turns or areas of low grip. An Extreme example is WRC cars powerslideing through the u-turns.
"The true champions are also great men. They are capable of making difficult decisions, of admitting their mistakes and of pushing harder than before when they get up from a fall."

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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by 747heavy » Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:41 pm

n smikle wrote:Is there scientific data that shows neutral car is faster in all cases though? I am not too sure about it. Sometimes getting the car to point in a certain direction, though using less grip can get you through the corner faster in say a low speed turns or areas of low grip. An Extreme example is WRC cars powerslideing through the u-turns.
Do you have scientific data to prove your theory? :wink:
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look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver."
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Re: Driver styles/preferences

Post by ringo » Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:44 pm

godlameroso wrote:Piquet wasn't that good of a driver if you ask me.

Prost was very similar to Button, with a kind of Kubica car control

Senna was very much like a mix of Hamilton Vettel and Alonso all rolled into one.
I find it hard to believe a 3 time world champion was not that good of a driver.
I find it interesting how much people demonize piquet or ignore his achievements.
The man is one of The Greats, hate him or love him.

Senna to me is more like Vettel, just more, and a splash of Hamilton.
Hamilton is himself, i can't really match his overtaking ability with any other driver, even Senna.
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