F1 Quiz Chain

[WhiteBlue]

Ferrari introduced a number of genuine innovative engine concepts to F1 but they also had three or four me toos before engine design got standardized to a large extend in the last five years. I'm looking for what is probably Ferrari's first shameless me too engine. Two of its main design features had not been used by Ferrari before and were very fundamental racing inventions by two different, independent French companies pioneered at hugely different times. The first innovation was made by a group of design engineers that had a nick name which was a total misfit. The second innovation was also initially misjudged and the car had a pejorative nick name.

1. engine designation and year
2. which company introduced the first innovative feature, when and what was the nick name
3. which company introduced the second innovative feature, when and what was the nick name

[CMSMJ1]

1: the 046 - a shameless V10 copy of our friends at Renault..
2: Cunning - ??
3: Devious - I am thinking Turbos and the lads at KKK maybe?? The nasty name being the kettle as it blew up a lot...

I'll be back...I hope!

[WhiteBlue]

1: the 046 - a shameless V10 copy of our friends at Renault..

The 046 was by no means the first mee too Ferrari. The case I think of was much earlier.

[matt21]

1. Type 021, 1980
2. ?
3. v6 turbo, renault rs01, 1977, "the yellow teapot"

[WhiteBlue]

1. Type 021, 1980
2. ?
3. v6 turbo, renault rs01, 1977, "the yellow teapot"

That is correct. I was indeed having the Tipo 21 from 1980-83 in mind which ran in the Ferrari 126C.



The V6 turbo was pioneered by Renault with the RS01 and the car was called the little yellow tea pot.

So now we are looking for the other French company that pioneered an engine technology used in the Tipo 021. I will give another hint. The first use of the technology in a GP car actually precedes Formula 1 by decades and Ferrari's main engine competitors in 1980 had been using it for more than ten years.

[xpensive]

Oh I don't know WB, calling the Ferrari 021 a "shameless me too engine" and the turbo a "fundamental racing invention" by Renault, is a bit much?

The Ferrari engine was very different indeed from the Renault, while turbos had been around in Indy-racing and CanAm for many years before 1977.

[WhiteBlue]

Renault have raced Gordini V6 tubos in other classes before (1975) but here we talk about Formula one and GP racing. Renault introduced V6 turbos to GP racing and should receive the honor for it. The champ car turbos were mainly I-4 Offys and V8s. The Renault approach was innovative IMO.

Ferrari simply copied the concept instead of using an existing I-4 or V8 design to do something different or innovative. It looks like everybody but BMW simply did what Renault did first. So can we now finsh this question, please?

[Gary]

So can we now finsh this question, please?

Couldn't agree more. [-o<

[xpensive]

Not just yet, gentlemen.

I beg to differ WB, xactly in which way would it be innovative to turbo-charge a V6 rather than an I4, V8 or flat-12, which had been done many years before the Renault? The rules had allowed for it in F1 since 1966 anyway.

Moreover, the Renault was based on an xisting block, not purpose-built like the Ferrari, which was a 120 degree unit with the turbos mounted in the vee, way more innovative me thinks and certainly not a "shameless me too engine".

[WhiteBlue]

Another hint: What did the Cosworth DFV and the Renault Gordini EF1 engine have that the Ferrari predecessor Tipo 015 did not have?

[747heavy]

Water injection - maybe ???????

[marcush.]

timing belt-- but wasn´t that invented by Glas?

[WhiteBlue]

Water injection - maybe ???????

No, it is actually part of the DFV name.

[CMSMJ1]

A double cam, four valve head...

[andrew]

What's the question now? It seems that we have a regular Bamber Gascoigne with about 5 diferent questions on the go at the same time!

Can someone clarify?