Is the Merc engine really that good?

[xpensive]

At what rpm is the clutch typically dropped then, 10k, 12k, 14k or even 16k?

[segedunum]

The starts make up an insignificant proportion of a whole race and you've then got outright performance around pit stops to consider as well when the car is in clear air. There's likely to be very little difference concentrating in bands where the engine isn't operating most of the time, and most of what difference there might be is down to the weight distribution and gearing involved.

The performance gain is where the car and engine is going to be operating most of the time, and again, it's a tradeoff.

We have seen whom losing out again and again at the startline ??????

I don't follow.

[timbo]

The starts make up an insignificant proportion of a whole race and you've then got outright performance around pit stops to consider as well when the car is in clear air. There's likely to be very little difference and most of what difference there might be is down to the weight distribution and gearing involved.

Please read my following post and look at youtube videos.
You often (well, at least) sometimes have something like a very slow hairpin in what generally is medium-to-high speed circuit.
In such hairpin revs may drop as low as 5-6k rpm.

[andrew]

I think it's safe to say that the Merc engine is currently the best on the grid but the chassis on the W01 is not great. But how much better the Merc engine is than the Renault or the Ferrari is impossible to say without seing the bhp for each.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I think it's safe to say that the Merc engine is currently the best on the grid but the chassis on the W01 is not great. But how much better the Merc engine is than the Renault or the Ferrari is impossible to say without seing the bhp for each.

But the difference is not that great andrew.
Point is, "equalisation" for Renault could see them leap ahead of Mercedes as its V8 does certain things better than the benz....

[andrew]

True. At the moment the all engines (with the possible exception of the Cosworth) are probably much the same in terms of outright power. But as you point out, using the Renault as an example, the power is being delivered differently and giving an advantage at times.

I guess it all comes down to the drive train and chassis given that the engines are likely pretty closly matched or am I iles off here?

[segedunum]

In such hairpin revs may drop as low as 5-6k rpm.

That's not where the engine sits most of the time, where these engines certainly will be relatively similar. The real advantage is in operating at the powerband close to the revlimit because the engine quickly jumps there.

If the engines tended to operate at 5 - 6000 RPM most of the time then fair enough, but they don't.

[timbo]

If the engines tended to operate at 5 - 6000 RPM most of the time then fair enough, but they don't.

I'm not saying it is give all-take all difference. I would say that if your engine is really lacking in driveability you can feel that.
And loosing .01 out of hairpin on each lap of 70-lap race sums to 0.7 s at the finish line. Not much, but you don't want to loose, don't you?

[marcush.]

seg ..
It´s so easy: Button could leapfrog Alonso at the start with a somewhat better takeoff .why this is so we don´t tknow but it netted track position AND compromised Alonso in using the potential of his car.
So you say the start is not important ..that is your theory .But in reality only the guy who is in front after the start is going to have the possibility to use all the potential of his mount(given that he´s quickest or almost quickest.
In effect your performance at critical times satrt ,pitstop ,overtaking is potentially as important as you ability to sustain competitive speed.
As seen with RedBull this year: Very good ultimate speed compromised by comparably mediocre starts and dodgy overtaking performance.
We do not know if the bad starts and overtaking is a engine ,car or driver thing or a combo of all three but it is quite obvious that both drivers struggle in the same area ..hinting at a car issue.

[Richied76]

I ride a RVF400 motorcycle. Its maximum Rpm is around 16700+rpm with its maximum power and torque around 11500rpm. Yes i grant you that this is a very low capacity engine, but so is 2400cc for a V8. Point is drop its rpm below 10,000 and its practicaly unrideable. You instantly go for a lower gear. In 1st gear though it is such a low ratio that revs below 4k are responsive.
I think when the engine of an f1 car goes that low its because the gearing may be optimised for that rpm at a given corner (slowest maybe) and not paticulaly that it has good low down "grunt"


The problem with redbulls starts could be transmisson related although looking at the footage posted earlyer in the thread, vettel doesnt pick up the throttle on acceleration smoothly at all. I'm suprised he hasn't had more gearbox failures. Weather this affects his starts or not thought is another matter