What will come after the 2.4 V8?

[WhiteBlue]

The fuel is already tightly regulated. They can simply carry on with that unless they want to tweak the bio content.

[747heavy]

.....

[WhiteBlue]

I think that is PR hogwash.

ARTICLE 19 : FUEL
19.1 Purpose of Article 19 :
19.1.1 The purpose of this Article is to ensure that the fuel used in Formula One is petrol as this term is generally understood.
19.1.2 The detailed requirements of this Article are intended to ensure the use of fuels that are composed of compounds normally found in commercial fuels and to prohibit the use of specific power-boosting chemical compounds. Acceptable compounds and compound classes are defined in 19.2 and 19.4.3. In addition, to cover the presence of low level impurities, the sum of components lying outside the 19.2 and 19.4.3 definitions are limited to 1% max m/m of the total fuel.
19.1.3 Any petrol, which appears to have been formulated in order to subvert the purpose of this regulation, will be deemed to be outside it.

Two pages of definitions and regulation follow. § 19.1.1 and 19.1.2 ensure that competitors stay honest. Any attempt to use power boosting compounds would not be tolerated by the watchful eye of the competitors. You may have a bit more liberty in the composition of the bio fuel content but I bet all the guys will have recognized immediately where the limits are and have gone straight to what is possible.

I believe the issue is more about the future bio content in F1 fuel. My view is that they should continue to reflect what is sold at gas stations here in Europe. We have been pretty good at providing technically suitable fuels that also meet a reasonable bio content and do not go over the top in that regard. IMO there is no point for F1 to use 100% bio fuels if they are not reflecting reality on the road.

[strad]

747:
Thanks...There is a part there that if read that would clear up what I tried to tell some of you a long time ago about the fuel being oxygenated and THAT is why you have so much flame out the exhaust...IT could not happen without oxygenation...IT IS NOT PUMP FUEL like they have been trying to tell you...Not in F1, not in NASCAR and not or in most major series. that claim to run pump gas.
Look at one of the specials on Shell F1 fuel...the stuff is pure clear as water,,,when you seen pump gas that was clear...AND...doesn't yous gasoline contain at least 10% alcohol? Theirs doesn't! I have been upset about them daring to call what they run, "Pump Gas" ever since they started. Total lie for the purposes of marketing...You guys hate lawyers? I hate those that work in advertising,,,I think they're the most immoral people I know.

[Pingguest]

I think that is PR hogwash.

ARTICLE 19 : FUEL
19.1 Purpose of Article 19 :
19.1.1 The purpose of this Article is to ensure that the fuel used in Formula One is petrol as this term is generally understood.
19.1.2 The detailed requirements of this Article are intended to ensure the use of fuels that are composed of compounds normally found in commercial fuels and to prohibit the use of specific power-boosting chemical compounds. Acceptable compounds and compound classes are defined in 19.2 and 19.4.3. In addition, to cover the presence of low level impurities, the sum of components lying outside the 19.2 and 19.4.3 definitions are limited to 1% max m/m of the total fuel.
19.1.3 Any petrol, which appears to have been formulated in order to subvert the purpose of this regulation, will be deemed to be outside it.

Two pages of definitions and regulation follow. § 19.1.1 and 19.1.2 ensure that competitors stay honest. Any attempt to use power boosting compounds would not be tolerated by the watchful eye of the competitors. You may have a bit more liberty in the composition of the bio fuel content but I bet all the guys will have recognized immediately where the limits are and have gone straight to what is possible.

I believe the issue is more about the future bio content in F1 fuel. My view is that they should continue to reflect what is sold at gas stations here in Europe. We have been pretty good at providing technically suitable fuels that also meet a reasonable bio content and do not go over the top in that regard. IMO there is no point for F1 to use 100% bio fuels if they are not reflecting reality on the road.

That depends whether Formula 1 should become relevant for the current road cars or future road cars.

[ACRO]

That depends whether Formula 1 should become relevant for the current road cars or future road cars.

i think its a key why carmaker companies support the new engine. a 4cyl is the main engine in most today road cars. having such a construction in f1 on the one hand could market this type further even in luxury cars ( e.g mercedes will introduce in near future a 4cyl diesel engine in the s class ) and on the other hand provide furhter knowledge for road cars in high boosted , small displacement engines.

they will not spend anymore the money in engines that has nothing in common with road car engines, which develop their power at excessive, no road relevant revolutions, but in an engine type that could be adapted to many segments.

also there will be not a technological engine battle anymore that brings the carmakers to the financial limits since like said all will build the same core engine and all will reach the same power.

well... for the technical interested spectator sad news anyway, goodbye in searching for revs, hp and an advance in the powerplant...

[gridwalker]

I think that is PR hogwash.

I gotta go with WB here.

Flameouts in the exhaust show nothing : by the time that the flames are visible, they have entered the atmosphere which contains (surprise surprise) an adequate supply of oxygen to produce a yellow flame.

If it was oxygen enriched, the flame would be a much paler colour due to the relative carbon content.

Under combustion, a low oxygen level produces carbon monoxide + carbon (which tints the flame yellow) but a high oxygen count will produce carbon dioxide and results in a much paler blue flame (just like a bunsen burner).

A yellow flame coming out of the exhaust will prove nothing except that a small amount of fuel has been vapourised and vented through the exhaust system. Big deal.

If the FIA monitor for such subtleties as illegal chilling and given that they demand that drivers make it back to the pit lane under their own power after quali so they can guarantee a representative fuel sample from the car, don't you think that they would perform due dilligence to check that the sample conforms to their own regulations?

What do you think those samples are for? Do you think that Charlie Whiting is going to line up all of the samples in wine glasses, swill them around his mouth and rate them according to flavour and bouquet???

No, I didn't think so either.

[autogyro]

+1
Poor old Charlie, he always comes in for loads of flack.
Unjustified.

[strad]

....we have more freedom to develop the fuels....We are also allowed to use any type of bio-hydrocarbon and NOT JUST OXYGENATES.

[gridwalker]

Oh, for crying out loud : ALCOHOL is a hydrocarbon oxygenate ... it is a hydrocarbon with an OH group attached. This is basic chemistry!

If the fuel companies are adding alcohol, they are mixing in Hydrocarbon Oxygenates!

F1 teams are allowed to mix a specific amount of alcohol into their fuel mixture. This does not mean that the fuel is pre-oxygenated, as that would require a specific oxidising agent. There is a BIG difference between the two.

EDIT :
A little background info on Hydrocarbon Oxygenates can be found in the opening paragraphs of this fact sheet - http://www.epa.gov/OUST/mtbe/omethods.pdf

[747heavy]

......

[WhiteBlue]

I think the fuel is only an issue in the engine working group with regard to a potential change of composition. If they keep the same formula as now - which obviously is an option - nothing will change except that fuel companies will probably compose with a view for higher octane rating in the allowable limits.

If they go for a higher bio content the shake up will be a bit bigger and the engine designers obviously need to know the exact details to make decisions on compression and other items of specification.

According to all sources it will not be a self igniting fuel in order to avoid running with soot particulate filters that would destroy the noise.

I don't think it will be pure ethanol or methanol either. F1 wants to be road relevant so the composition will continue to reflect what you find at a petrol station. This is what I think will happen.

[Just_a_fan]

I hope they don't go down the bio-fuel route. The idea of using land to grow fuel for a car seems perverse to me. Especially when some of the land being used could be used to grow food.

Yes, I know that bio-fuel can be sourced in many ways but this seems to be the favourite way currently and is not to be encouraged in my view.

[gridwalker]

Biofuel? For me you'd have to go with green goo, all the way : http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/scienc ... aebiofuel/

It can be grown in a tank : minimising the need for cultivated land
It is not edible : No food price shock
It has an incredibly high density per square foot : Great economy of scale
It grows faster than other sources : It is quicker to build up a supply and mops up its own carbon very rapidly.

Green goo FTW!!!

[Just_a_fan]

"Soylent Green is people!"

Sorry, couldn't resist...