What will come after the 2.4 V8?

[WhiteBlue]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5556&p=200171#p200171

We have a dedicated topic on biofuel from algae for some years now. Unfortunately it has been moved to off topic chat, which is undeserved and inappropriate. This could well be the source for F1 fuel in some years, but 2013 would be a bit early.

[strad]

IF you believe what Shell gives Ferrari is pump gas...I have a bridge I can sell you.

[Shrek]

sweet a bridge

[WhiteBlue]

viewtopic.php?p=200204#p200204

In the turbo thread I have proposed an axial twin spool turbine to drive the turbo charger with one spool and and a turbo compounder with reduction gear with the other. Based on power ratios taken from a Writhe R-3350 TC engine build in 1950 it should be possible to recover another 26% of the primary engine power from its exhaust which would be 169 bhp. While 98 hp would be required to run the turbo compressor there would be still 65 bhp left after reduction gearing to boost engine power to 715 bhp instead of 650 for the primary engine only. This permanent 10% increase in power compared to the primary ICE would be the HERS contribution and in my view entirely legal. The regulations simply must be written in such a form that turbo compounding and multi spool exhaust turbines are not prohibited.



And this is how I would arrange the elements. In blue you have a V4 engine, in green the gear box and in red the twin spool turbine. The turbine would essentially be above the gear box with the reduction gear for the turbo compounding stage in light green. From the engine you would first have the turbocompound turbine which drives the reduction gear at the other end of the arrangement. Next turbo stage is arranged on a hollow shaft surrounding the first spool. This turbine can run on independent rpm from the turbo compounder and drives the turbocharging compressor stage shown as the third red element in the sketch.

If they select an inclined L4 engine the turbine may be at the side of the engine which is more difficult to sketch in powerpoint. Therefore I choose a V4 arrangement.

[godlameroso]

Interesting so would the compounder be engaged at a certain point or would it be engaged all the time? I think it would put hefty strain on the turbo bearings either way; I guess leaving it engaged all the time would be the lesser of two evils. Although I'm also assuming this would increase turbo lag, maybe use the KERS to compensate, or devise a way to engage the system gradually to lessen the strain. In addition, do you think it possible to be able to use this system in place of a normal turbo waste-gate?

[WhiteBlue]

Interesting so would the compounder be engaged at a certain point or would it be engaged all the time? I think it would put hefty strain on the turbo bearings either way; I guess leaving it engaged all the time would be the lesser of two evils. Although I'm also assuming this would increase turbo lag, maybe use the KERS to compensate, or devise a way to engage the system gradually to lessen the strain. In addition, do you think it possible to be able to use this system in place of a normal turbo waste-gate?

Most of the questions are answered in the turbo thread. The turbo compounder would always run but with an independent rpm from the turbo charger.

Alternatively to a twin spool design one could also turn the turbine arrangement and run the turbo compounder turbine as a free shaft which could be more cost effective than a twin spool design. The compounder torque would be supplied at the gear box entry.



Bearings would not be any different than in other known turbo machinery.

Turbo lag and a waste gate would be avoided by using the small diameter high pressure turbine and variable vanes for the first stage.

[ringo]

Anybody know anything about turbocharged race cars and the thier compression ratio?
I know the 80's cars had ratios from 7.5 to 9.5.
What can we expect from modern Direct injection turbo engines, 10.5..11!?

[WhiteBlue]

Anybody know anything about turbocharged race cars and the thier compression ratio?
I know the 80's cars had ratios from 7.5 to 9.5.
What can we expect from modern Direct injection turbo engines, 10.5..11!?

It very much depends of the fuel they use and the ignition principle. I think you better look at petrol engine sports cars with direct injection. The Porsche turbo engines

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/3933 ... Turbo.html fit the bill.

10.5:1 for their twin turbos.

MP4-12C would probably a good place to look as well but I'm not aware that they are sharing such details yet. Their compression could be higher if they use a very efficient form of direct injection. Porsche is not the best in that technology.

[agip]

What do you know about Formula Two? they use 1.8L 4-cyl. turbo made by Audi.

[xxChrisxx]

What do you know about Formula Two? they use 1.8L 4-cyl. turbo made by Audi.

Golf GTI/S3 engine on steriods. As used in FPA but with MOAR boost.

[Mysticf1]

http://www.zzw30.com/HondaRA168EEngine.pdf

I dont know if this has been posted but i came accross it and thought it may be of some interest regarding this thread.

[747heavy]

Anybody know anything about turbocharged race cars and the thier compression ratio?
I know the 80's cars had ratios from 7.5 to 9.5.
What can we expect from modern Direct injection turbo engines, 10.5..11!?

Audi R8 FSI LeMans engine

After the optimisation of the fuel pump, the compression ratio
was increased to a value above 12.
Due to the increased efficiency, the exhaust temperature fell by 50 °C.
Therefore, the insulation of the exhaust system and the turbine housing had to be
improved in order to maintain a sufficient energy supply to the turbine at lower engine speeds.

[WhiteBlue]

http://www.zzw30.com/HondaRA168EEngine.pdf

I dont know if this has been posted but i came accross it and thought it may be of some interest regarding this thread.

The fuel was 84% toluene!

Inhaling high levels of toluene can cause death or unconsciousness. Repeatedly breathing toluene over long periods of time at work, or through deliberately "sniffing" or "huffing" glue or paint, can cause death, permanent brain damage, or depression.

The toxicity of toluene can be explained mostly by its metabolism. As toluene has very low water solubility, it cannot exit the body via the normal routes (urine, feces, or sweat). It must be metabolized in order to be excreted. In the metabolism of toluene, 95% is oxidized to become benzyl alcohol.[14] The toxic metabolites are created by the remaining 5% that are oxidized to benzaldehyde and cresols. Most of the reactive products are detoxified by conjugation to glutathione but the remainder may severely damage cells.

[ACRO]

what can be interesting is the question if our 1.6 inline4 will be a classical 180deg crankshaft design with even firing or a crossplane crankshaft design with uneven firing.

yamaha introduced a crossplane "big bang" inline4 and claimed that you reach better low end torques and engine response. but thats only yamahas way, other producers seemed not to catch this idea and go for the 180deg crankshaft.

[ringo]

Will the engines continue to use pneumatic springs?
10,000 - 12,000 rpm doesn't make it necessary. Maybe there is an advantage to have the pneumatic springs at lower rpm, since the stiffness is variable?