Is Hamilton desperate or what?

[i70q7m7ghw]

Hamilton is desperate, he's fighting for a championship which he is currently losing. McLaren are the third fastest car at the moment, and they aren't going to win the championship by coming third.

Out of the 2 drivers Webber was the bigger idiot, he has potentially the fastest car and the championship lead, he shouldn't have taken such a big risk and resisted the move so hard, it just wasn't worth it. Finishing 4th behind Lewis would still have left him in the lead of the championship, at a track where he was at a disadvantage. In the end he was probably the luckiest man this season! as somehow he finished the race which the tyre nearly off the rim.

Here's something to ponder. If Hamilton had gone wide on the exit of that corner to give Webber room he would have had to drive wide over that curb in to the run off, riding the curb would have given room but compromised exit speed and possibly damaged the car. Drivers have been penalised for doing such a thing. Bearing this in mind when Lewis arrived at the corner ahead of Mark, potentially he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.

“If you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver.”
—Ayrton Senna

[Gerhard Berger]

Yes, you should look at Kubica overtaking maneuver at the same place - while on the outside, he left room for the other guy, rather than cutting into him like Hamilton did! Hamilton was half a car length ahead abut Weber had the inside and it's preposterous to assume that he'll yield in that situation. A clear mistake by an arrogant, immature driver who expects everyone to get out of his way.

Webber never had the turn if u ask me...It was impossible to clear the turn without colliding with Hamilton or locking and going way of the line wide...I cant believe that in Monza people were calling Hamilton stupid for going to a gap that hardly was there colliding with Massa or that he should have braked...Now that Webber does it is an applaudable and acceptable move...??

In highlighted section...Maybe Lewis is mistaken with Seb here?

Let go of Hamilton hatred...(if there is any) - Seems though that its the only reason for the above post)

You cannot compare it with the incident with Massa. In both cases Hamilton was trying to overtake.

[Gerhard Berger]

Hamilton is desperate, he's fighting for a championship which he is currently losing. McLaren are the third fastest car at the moment, and they aren't going to win the championship by coming third.

Out of the 2 drivers Webber was the bigger idiot, he has potentially the fastest car and the championship lead, he shouldn't have taken such a big risk and resisted the move so hard, it just wasn't worth it. Finishing 4th behind Lewis would still have left him in the lead of the championship, at a track where he was at a disadvantage. In the end he was probably the luckiest man this season! as somehow he finished the race which the tyre nearly off the rim.

Here's something to ponder. If Hamilton had gone wide on the exit of that corner to give Webber room he would have had to drive wide over that curb in to the run off, riding the curb would have given room but compromised exit speed and possibly damaged the car. Drivers have been penalised for doing such a thing. Bearing this in mind when Lewis arrived at the corner ahead of Mark, potentially he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.

“If you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver.”
—Ayrton Senna

His exit is not what was important in this incident. He tried to go for the apex when Webber was inside him.

[segedunum]

I wanted a video of Sutil and Kubica to demonstrate to you how Sutil did the right thing, and the show how Webber out braked himself and was heading for the wall across the road.

Totally nonsensical speculation. The fact that Webber didn't end up in the wall across the road and wasn't anywhere near to doing so when the collision with Hamilton happened proves otherwise.

Look at the picture of Webber and Hamilton side-by-side into the corner with Webber still on the inside. In Kubica's case he was far enough ahead of Sutil to claim the corner before Sutil got there. There's a bit of luck involved since he wouldn't have really seen him. Quite where Hamilton expected Webber to be I don't know.

Hamilton has been clever enough in the past to realise that he's needed to leave himself on the outside of a corner when overtaking, just-in-case, and even going around the outside he was just far enough ahead to have easily stayed ahead. He just didn't do that on this occasion. For once, the stewards were right. It's just one of those things when you're amongst other cars.

[vall]

Yes, you should look at Kubica overtaking maneuver at the same place - while on the outside, he left room for the other guy, rather than cutting into him like Hamilton did! Hamilton was half a car length ahead abut Weber had the inside and it's preposterous to assume that he'll yield in that situation. A clear mistake by an arrogant, immature driver who expects everyone to get out of his way.

Webber never had the turn if u ask me...It was impossible to clear the turn without colliding with Hamilton or locking and going way of the line wide...I cant believe that in Monza people were calling Hamilton stupid for going to a gap that hardly was there colliding with Massa or that he should have braked...Now that Webber does it is an applaudable and acceptable move...??

well, in Monza was an overtake attempt and he should have seen that the gap was too small and will disappear. Entirely LH's fault. In Singapore MW was defending position. LH was overtaking and he should make sure to leave enough room. Instead with only half a car ahead of MW he turned in. As somebody said, it was an arrogant move (al a Spa 2008) along the line "move out of my way".....

[Just_a_fan]

As somebody said, it was an arrogant move (al a Spa 2008) along the line "move out of my way".....

I've seen people use the word 'arrogant' several times about Hamilton. It amuses and saddens me in equal measure. The guy is racing, he leaves room but it isn't enough and he's 'arrogant'? When others do the same thing they're 'unlucky'.

Why is he 'arrogant'? Why isn't Vettel 'arrogant' when he massively chops his own team mate resulting in a DNF? Why isn't Heidfeld 'arrogant' when he gets hit by Schuie at the same corner? Look at the video again and see he gives absolutely no room to Schuie. Why isn't Alonso 'arrogant' when he tries to muscle by Kubica by going off track in Silverstone?

One begins to wonder if Hamilton's supposed "arrogance" is actually a melanin issue...

[vall]

As somebody said, it was an arrogant move (al a Spa 2008) along the line "move out of my way".....

I've seen people use the word 'arrogant' several times about Hamilton. It amuses and saddens me in equal measure. The guy is racing, he leaves room but it isn't enough and he's 'arrogant'? When others do the same thing they're 'unlucky'.

Why is he 'arrogant'? Why isn't Vettel 'arrogant' when he massively chops his own team mate resulting in a DNF? Why isn't Heidfeld 'arrogant' when he gets hit by Schuie at the same corner? Look at the video again and see he gives absolutely no room to Schuie. Why isn't Alonso 'arrogant' when he tries to muscle by Kubica by going off track in Silverstone?

One begins to wonder if Hamilton's supposed "arrogance" is actually a melanin issue...

His arrogance goes back to 2007 and 2008, no? It is not just about last accident. Spa 2008 is a perfect example, and many actions and statements from 2007 too.

[komninosm]

As somebody said, it was an arrogant move (al a Spa 2008) along the line "move out of my way".....

I've seen people use the word 'arrogant' several times about Hamilton. It amuses and saddens me in equal measure. The guy is racing, he leaves room but it isn't enough and he's 'arrogant'? When others do the same thing they're 'unlucky'.

Why is he 'arrogant'? Why isn't Vettel 'arrogant' when he massively chops his own team mate resulting in a DNF? Why isn't Heidfeld 'arrogant' when he gets hit by Schuie at the same corner? Look at the video again and see he gives absolutely no room to Schuie. Why isn't Alonso 'arrogant' when he tries to muscle by Kubica by going off track in Silverstone?

One begins to wonder if Hamilton's supposed "arrogance" is actually a melanin issue...

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
This is the worst troll thread in this forum that I've seen. It would serve the forum if it was locked and forgotten already, but I guess there's too many Ham-haters out there to keep it alive and remake in case it goes down. [-X

[i70q7m7ghw]

At the end of the day Hamilton had to make the move, to not attempt the overtake when he had the opportunity (possibly the only one he would get) would be to concede defeat and give up on the title. You don't win championships by finishing behind your rivals, he needed to take the risk, Webber didn't. He botched it, and I think he knows that more than anyone here.]

We all kick and scream when there's no overtaking in Formula 1, and then when drivers starting taking risks people criticise them. I guess some people just aren't happy if they can't complain

[vall]

At the end of the day Hamilton had to make the move, to not attempt the overtake when he had the opportunity (possibly the only one he would get) would be to concede defeat and give up on the title. You don't win championships by finishing behind your rivals, he needed to take the risk, Webber didn't. He botched it, and I think he knows that more than anyone here.]

We all kick and scream when there's no overtaking in Formula 1, and then when drivers starting taking risks people criticise them. I guess some people just aren't happy if they can't complain

Absolutely no doubt about that, he should have attacked. However, the crash was to a large extent LH's fault because he turned in while Webbo was still there (claiming later he did now know Webber was there). The LH's fans want it to look as Webbo's fault. In their eyes Webber should have conceded the place because LH was 1/2 car ahead when they entered the turn. This is not the way you win WDC either, so Webbo had every right to defend his position. Truth is LH should not have turned in while Webber was there. He should have left space. Well, this is of course a relative term After all, MS claimed he left enough space to Rubens in Hungary because Rubens managed to overtake

[Just_a_fan]

His arrogance goes back to 2007 and 2008, no? It is not just about last accident. Spa 2008 is a perfect example, and many actions and statements from 2007 too.

I don't think he is any more or less arrogant than any of the other world champions of the last twenty years or more.

I think Button's behaviour when he 'bought' himself out of a contract was arrogant. I think some of Alonso's actions in the last few years have been tremendously arrogant. I think Schuie's actions on the track have also showed massive arrogance. Likewise Senna - although he also had a real 'human streak' as evidenced by the Comas and Zanardi shunts at Spa. Vettel has hardly been lacking in arrogance this year either although the difference there is that, unlike all of the others, he hasn't yet proven himself by taking the title.

I think what really annoys some people about Hamilton is that he's bloody good (how many others turned up on Day 1 and showed up a 2x champion?) and that he knows that he's bloody good. Perhaps he should apologise for being so bloody good. Would that help?

I did wonder if it's because Hamilton is a Brit but then so is Button and he doesn't appear to be hated by people. Which leaves only one glaring issue - the "elephant in the room" if you will. I honestly think that there are some people who hate Hamilton because he's black. It pains me to say it but I can't help but come to the conclusion when I see some of the guff written about him. I hope I'm wrong.

And before anyone has a go - I'm a middle-aged, reasonably well-off, white Englishman. And certainly not a bleeding-heart liberal looking for a victim to cry over. I'm just calling it how I see it.

[Gerhard Berger]

His arrogance goes back to 2007 and 2008, no? It is not just about last accident. Spa 2008 is a perfect example, and many actions and statements from 2007 too.

I don't think he is any more or less arrogant than any of the other world champions of the last twenty years or more.

I think Button's behaviour when he 'bought' himself out of a contract was arrogant. I think some of Alonso's actions in the last few years have been tremendously arrogant. I think Schuie's actions on the track have also showed massive arrogance. Likewise Senna - although he also had a real 'human streak' as evidenced by the Comas and Zanardi shunts at Spa. Vettel has hardly been lacking in arrogance this year either although the difference there is that, unlike all of the others, he hasn't yet proven himself by taking the title.

I think what really annoys some people about Hamilton is that he's bloody good (how many others turned up on Day 1 and showed up a 2x champion?) and that he knows that he's bloody good. Perhaps he should apologise for being so bloody good. Would that help?

I did wonder if it's because Hamilton is a Brit but then so is Button and he doesn't appear to be hated by people. Which leaves only one glaring issue - the "elephant in the room" if you will. I honestly think that there are some people who hate Hamilton because he's black. It pains me to say it but I can't help but come to the conclusion when I see some of the guff written about him. I hope I'm wrong.

And before anyone has a go - I'm a middle-aged, reasonably well-off, white Englishman. And certainly not a bleeding-heart liberal looking for a victim to cry over. I'm just calling it how I see it.

No need to play the race card. No one has said anything racist.

You were on the right track initially - he's good and he knows it, plus he's a hard racer which has led to some questionable moves. Button on the other hand isn't as arrogant and is more down to earth, plus he's a much cleaner and fairer racer.

[zeph]

I don't think he is any more or less arrogant than any of the other world champions of the last twenty years or more.

I agree.

I think what really annoys some people about Hamilton is that he's bloody good (how many others turned up on Day 1 and showed up a 2x champion?) and that he knows that he's bloody good.

I think you're right.

Which leaves only one glaring issue - the "elephant in the room" if you will. I honestly think that there are some people who hate Hamilton because he's black. It pains me to say it but I can't help but come to the conclusion when I see some of the guff written about him. I hope I'm wrong.

If you hope you are wrong, I think you can rest assured. Sure, a lot of "guff" flies around here but not more so about Hamilton than for example Alonso or Vettel. The nature of the "guff" (love that term!) about LH is not inherently different from that directed at the others on the "Most Hated Driver" list.

If anything, my feeling is that being black has actually worked out to his advantage in a major way.

I'm not a fan, but that is because of his goody-two-shoes image and the predictable soundbites he delivers to the media. Oh, and yes, I am a little envious because
DAAAYUMN!

[andrew]

I think what really annoys some people about Hamilton is that he's bloody good (how many others turned up on Day 1 and showed up a 2x champion?) and that he knows that he's bloody good. Perhaps he should apologise for being so bloody good. Would that help?

Who was that German kid that put matched and bettered Nelson Piquet? Can't think what happened to him.

I did wonder if it's because Hamilton is a Brit but then so is Button and he doesn't appear to be hated by people. Which leaves only one glaring issue - the "elephant in the room" if you will. I honestly think that there are some people who hate Hamilton because he's black. It pains me to say it but I can't help but come to the conclusion when I see some of the guff written about him. I hope I'm wrong.

So anyone that doesn't like Hamilton is a racist? Get real!

[Just_a_fan]

No need to play the race card. No one has said anything racist.

You were on the right track initially - he's good and he knows it, plus he's a hard racer which has led to some questionable moves. Button on the other hand isn't as arrogant and is more down to earth, plus he's a much cleaner and fairer racer.

As I said, I hope I'm wrong but some people on this site seem not to be able to say anything good about the guy no matter what he does. It makes me wonder about their motives.

I think the fact that hs is good and a proper racer too is the main issue getting people's backs up. It's quite funny in some ways, because we've had people moaning about drivers driving for the points finish when they should race - when one actually does that they get roundly castigated for it.

Some of the rubbish on here about "he didn't leave enough room" or "he turned in on Webber" when the video evidence shows that he left room and was actually not nearly so agressive in his turn in as e.g. Heidfeld was.

As for questionable moves - I wonder if people have just got used to drivers passing in the pits and have forgotten what overtaking is about. When you're racing against someone in broadly similar machinery, you have to be forceful or you'll get nowhere - especially when the cars struggle in close proximity to each other. Hamilton (like Alonso and Kubica too I think) is no different to Senna and Schuie in their heydays - he puts the car in to the right position and says "I'm coming through what are you going to do about it?". Button and many others put their cars near to the other one and say "can I come through?" Which is why Hamilton et al are much more effective in traffic than Button et al. It's risky but the rewards usually outweight the risks on balance.

The problem is that some F1 drivers seem to think they're driving touring cars and that the way to defend is to just say "I don't care if you're in the advantageous position - I'm not yielding even if we both go off". That works against the Buttons of this world but not against the Hamiltons / Alonsos / Kubicas. Well, it works against the latter group if they don't get their lines 100% right.

Webber is a past master at the aggressive defence. On Sunday he lucked in but one has to say that he's not often that lucky.