Porsche announces possible return to F1

[WhiteBlue]

Matthias Müller made this announcement on his first day as chairman of Porsche. Previously he was responsible for the strategic marketing of the VW group. It looks like he will take a different line compared to Wiedeking with Porsche's activities in racing. I do not believe that there will be more than one brand in F1. This guy has done some thinking before he made his comment.

[Pup]

Given the difficulties that the current engine suppliers have with finding customers, it's hard to imagine another one joining the mix, especially if they want to supply multiple teams.

Would Renault make way? I think that's unlikely given the technology platform is so progressive.

I guess they could look to take one customer from each of Mercedes, Ferrari and Cosworth. Force India Porsche, anyone?

I don't think it makes sense for a manufacturer to be purely a supplier. They don't get the exposure they need, and they have to make sure they are competitive, which means money. Renault is about as hands-off as seems feasible, and even they had to reverse course a bit and put more money into their team this year. Not that I think Porsche would need to run their own team, like Merc or BMW, etc., but I do think they'd be far better off working closely with a single team like Williams.

[Pup]

They have repeatedly said that they only want to supply engines and most likely to multiple teams.

What they have repeatedly said is that they aren't interested in F1, so perhaps we shouldn't put much weight on their past comments.

[WhiteBlue]

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 00109.html

The other option to place Audi in F1 and Porsche in LeMans with LMP1 would also make some sense. Seeing the famous Autounion rings back in F1 would be exciting, but Dr. Ulrich has opposed such a move quite often. Porsche on the other hand was very successful with McLaren and the TAG sponsored Porsche Turbo engine.

McLaren would probably not be an option again considering that they would be direct Porsche competitors in sports cars.

[donskar]

Speculation, guesswork, or wild-eyed dreaming, fact is Porsche's last effort in F1 was not a success.

Highly unlikely they'd do a horizontally opposed engine -- wouldn't work with the underbody aero.

No, they would not get as much exposure as they would running a factory team, but:
-- supplying only engines reduces the risk of failure
-- Porsche has good marketing; they'd get good mileage out of supplying a successful engine

[WhiteBlue]

They have repeatedly said that they only want to supply engines and most likely to multiple teams.

What they have repeatedly said is that they aren't interested in F1, so perhaps we shouldn't put much weight on their past comments.

That is not true. In the last twelve months Hans Joachim Stuck and other VW motor sport managers have confirmed several times that they want to be in F1 from 2013 if the GRE format is selected and that they will not have their own team. They will restrict themselves to an engine supplier role.

http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1044 ... rld-engine

http://www.ausmotive.com/2009/11/30/han ... ut-f1.html

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 12701.html

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/news ... 11307.html

http://www.motorsport-magazin.com/forme ... -team.html

In the past Piech and other VW managers have said that F1 is too expensive. And that was true. Five days ago FOTA have extended the RRA to seven years until the end of 2017. It will create a much more interesting F1. This is likely to please VW and their idea of high return for low cost.

[Pup]

I think they'll take the same path they did in LeMans. Audi isn't willing to let someone else entirely decide their fate. They're not just going to throw a bunch of engines out there and hope for the best.

And there are only three teams that a manufacturer would seriously consider, anyway: Williams, McLaren, and Red Bull. My guess is that they would want one of those as their 'works' team, and the other as their 'customer/b-team'.

And I do think it will be Audi in F1, not Porsche. VW wants to generate interest for both brands, and a other stale year of Audi in LMP just puts the public to sleep.

[Just_a_fan]

Williams isn't the top independent team nowadays. This would be Red Bull

How do you define "independent" in this context? Might McLaren not feature at the top of the list now that they are a customer engine user?

[WhiteBlue]

Williams isn't the top independent team nowadays. This would be Red Bull

How do you define "independent" in this context? Might McLaren not feature at the top of the list now that they are a customer engine user?

Not an automotive manufacturer. McLaren is automotive now. They are less likely to run Porsche/Audi engines. There would be the same clashes as with Mercedes. On the other hand Mercedes gets more milage out of the McLaren supplied engines than from their works team, which fully supports Stuck's view to supply multiple teams and not have a works effort.

[Just_a_fan]

Ok, I see where you're coming from now. Agreed.

[Pup]

Yes, McLaren is definitely an independent these days. But they're most likely to be using their own engine at that point, I'd think.

Between Red Bull and Williams, I'd say Red Bull have the best car, but I wouldn't say they have the best team. However, I think RB's ties with VW are far stronger than Williams'. If I had to make a guess right now, I'd say that they'd pick Red Bull as their 'works' outfit,if only because they'd have more freedom than with Williams, and they've got a second team built in. Audi have a lot of drivers in their stable that they'd like to give a shot at F1. Plus, and unfortunately, Frank Williams has already shown that he's willing to play second fiddle with his Toyota deal. But as we say, just speculation right now.

[WhiteBlue]

McLaren are not independent. They are an automotive manufacturer in their own right, just like Ferrari. I agree that they are likely to run their own F1 engine by 2013.

[Pup]

But...but...you used to argue that Ferrari were an independent team.

Until the day McLaren puts their own engine in their car, they are an independent team, like it or not.

[WhiteBlue]

Until the day McLaren puts their own engine in their car, they are an independent team, like it or not.

AFAIK they have their own engine design in the MP4-12C. The engines are just manufactured by a contractor. And in the case of McLaren we have it from the horses mouth (Dr. Dieter Zetsche) that Merc stopped their equity holding in McLaren due to clashing interests in product lines. The McLaren group even have a seperate company called Automotive. So there can be little doubt about their nature.

I would certainly see a difference between Daimler, Renault, Toyota, Honda, BMW and VW on one side and relatively small sports car makers such as Ferrari and McLaren when it comes to the ability to lead budget wars that we had in the past decade. But F1 seems to steer away from that situation and seems set to operate on much reduced budgets (415 head count compared to 1000+).

[jon-mullen]

This is likely to please VW and their idea of high return for low cost.

Rumor has it they're seriously considering NASCAR, probably for this reason.