Is Hamilton desperate or what?

[Poleman]

Interesting that you brought up Senna and Prost.
Who was wrong in that incident, and who was responsible, the leader or follower?
Who had the inside but was behind?

What's the difference between Hamilton and Webber?
Their case is even worse, if we look on the nature of the turn and speed differential.

Nail in the coffin.

Your coffin maybe! Senna told prost that he was going to drive him off the road, and made NO effort to turn the car. I dont think that Webber had a word with Hamilton, to the effect that he was going to drive him off the road. But apart from that, it was Hamilton who tried to drive Webber off the road. Watch the move. Webber was pushed over the kerbs!

God save us... [-o< [-o< [-o<

[aral]

Interesting that you brought up Senna and Prost.
Who was wrong in that incident, and who was responsible, the leader or follower?
Who had the inside but was behind?

What's the difference between Hamilton and Webber?
Their case is even worse, if we look on the nature of the turn and speed differential.

Nail in the coffin.

Your coffin maybe! Senna told prost that he was going to drive him off the road, and made NO effort to turn the car. I dont think that Webber had a word with Hamilton, to the effect that he was going to drive him off the road. But apart from that, it was Hamilton who tried to drive Webber off the road. Watch the move. Webber was pushed over the kerbs!

God save us... [-o< [-o< [-o<

The next time somebody cuts you off at a roundabout, just remember, IT YOUR FAULT for being on the inside!

[marcush.]

Of course being in front you will not give your opponent more than a half width of track space...so Hamilton did what he had to do ,maybe not as brutal as he should have had (squeezing Webber).
For Webber on the other side where was he going to go with out making contact?
His approach into the corner was never going to make it without coming to a standstill...
So to me Webber was looking for contact AS HE ALWAYS seems in these circumstances.
Hee´s one of the do or die guys never yielding even if the position is lost he will go for the gap that is not there.Without a doubt he was always half a length or more behind Hamilton and he chose to go for the half gap ignoring Hamiltons rear wheel ....so Yes he risked his own race in this more than necessary....it was just a bad move from his side if he was quick enough he could have regained position on the way to the very next corner.
But please let me know just why he kept so close to the lapped guy instead of positioning himself further to the right ? He invited Hamilton to go outside ..
which is ...the proper racing line...so better braking ..better corner speed ...
Racing drivers are made for split second decisions ..for me this is obviously
on purpose or at least being prepared to take the other out with yourself.

[Poleman]

The next time somebody cuts you off at a roundabout, just remember, IT YOUR FAULT for being on the inside!

Of course it will be my fault...If i see someone closing the door on me or not leaving me enough room i have the logic to see that a collision comes ahead.Next time ill try to pass someone on the track and see that i cant do it i will sure tap my break pedal...Thats common sense unless in your racing book trying to overtake by colliding with your competitor is the best way then its fine with me.

[aral]

The next time somebody cuts you off at a roundabout, just remember, IT YOUR FAULT for being on the inside!

Of course it will be my fault...If i see someone closing the door on me or not leaving me enough room i have the logic to see that a collision comes ahead.Next time ill try to pass someone on the track and see that i cant do it i will sure tap my break pedal...Thats common sense unless in your racing book trying to overtake by colliding with your competitor is the best way then its fine with me.

Glad to see that you agree that Hamilton should have hit the anchors. But unfortunately, if you keep hitting the brakes, you are ruining your chances in the race! I see that your avatar is a well known figure. I dont think that he would have agreed with you. He went for the smallest opening, and made it bigger. Racing was all the more exciting for it.

[marcush.]

The next time somebody cuts you off at a roundabout, just remember, IT YOUR FAULT for being on the inside!

Of course it will be my fault...If i see someone closing the door on me or not leaving me enough room i have the logic to see that a collision comes ahead.Next time ill try to pass someone on the track and see that i cant do it i will sure tap my break pedal...Thats common sense unless in your racing book trying to overtake by colliding with your competitor is the best way then its fine with me.

+1

[maranello55]

Hammy shouldve given more room but given Webber's racing line, the exit wouldve been too wide for Hamilton to give the latter enough room, but Hamilton would survive the corner if he did that imho and lived to fight another lap. He made the mistake of assuming Webber would budge.

[ringo]

Hamilton made no mistakes. Gilgen is desperately trying to prove Hamilton wrong.
Webber was a fool not to use his brakes. He will make the same mistake again, but this time with another driver.
Gilgen clearly hasn't watched formula1 enough. Marcush and Poleman clearly know what they are talking about; they see it objectively.
Gilgen on the other hand would blame Prost for Senna crashing into him.
Or blame Button for Vettel wiping him out.

[Poleman]

The next time somebody cuts you off at a roundabout, just remember, IT YOUR FAULT for being on the inside!

Of course it will be my fault...If i see someone closing the door on me or not leaving me enough room i have the logic to see that a collision comes ahead.Next time ill try to pass someone on the track and see that i cant do it i will sure tap my break pedal...Thats common sense unless in your racing book trying to overtake by colliding with your competitor is the best way then its fine with me.

Glad to see that you agree that Hamilton should have hit the anchors. But unfortunately, if you keep hitting the brakes, you are ruining your chances in the race! I see that your avatar is a well known figure. I dont think that he would have agreed with you. He went for the smallest opening, and made it bigger. Racing was all the more exciting for it.

I see miscommunication here...

[Gerhard Berger]

The next time somebody cuts you off at a roundabout, just remember, IT YOUR FAULT for being on the inside!

Of course it will be my fault...If i see someone closing the door on me or not leaving me enough room i have the logic to see that a collision comes ahead.Next time ill try to pass someone on the track and see that i cant do it i will sure tap my break pedal...Thats common sense unless in your racing book trying to overtake by colliding with your competitor is the best way then its fine with me.

I don't think a comparison with everyday road driving is relevant. In everyday road driving you are not racing and are actively trying to avoid a collision.

[zeph]

We're going around in circles. The Hamilton supporters are never ever going to stop blaming Webber for the collision.

Webber fans will blame Hamilton for closing the door on their guy.

I and others will continue to think that it was nobody's fault and call it a racing incident.

Do we really need another 20 pages of going back and forth?

[aral]

Hamilton made no mistakes. Gilgen is desperately trying to prove Hamilton wrong.
Webber was a fool not to use his brakes. He will make the same mistake again, but this time with another driver.
Gilgen clearly hasn't watched formula1 enough. Marcush and Poleman clearly know what they are talking about; they see it objectively.
Gilgen on the other hand would blame Prost for Senna crashing into him.
Or blame Button for Vettel wiping him out.

I dont understand why you find it neccessary to attack me. I was never a fan of Webbers, so i have no interest in defending him. I have , however, had experience of racing, and so can speak with a modicum of experience. Passing is normally done on the inside of corners, and rarely on the outside, for fear of running off track at the exit. In this case, it was Hamilton who was trying to finish an overtaking move, and miscalculated. In fact, I have always put this incident down to a "racing incident" where both drivers failed to use a little common sense. But there seem to be some who claim that Webber DELIBERATELY rammed Hamilton. And if you look at my posts, did you not see me referring to Senna deliberately running Prost off the track, and telling him beforehand, that he would do so.

[BMW_F1]

The next time somebody cuts you off at a roundabout, just remember, IT YOUR FAULT for being on the inside!

Of course it will be my fault...If i see someone closing the door on me or not leaving me enough room i have the logic to see that a collision comes ahead.Next time ill try to pass someone on the track and see that i cant do it i will sure tap my break pedal...Thats common sense unless in your racing book trying to overtake by colliding with your competitor is the best way then its fine with me.

it is common sense because we are just driving to work and not racing and getting paid millions to beat your opponents on the race track..

[ringo]

Hamilton made no mistakes. Gilgen is desperately trying to prove Hamilton wrong.
Webber was a fool not to use his brakes. He will make the same mistake again, but this time with another driver.
Gilgen clearly hasn't watched formula1 enough. Marcush and Poleman clearly know what they are talking about; they see it objectively.
Gilgen on the other hand would blame Prost for Senna crashing into him.
Or blame Button for Vettel wiping him out.

I dont understand why you find it neccessary to attack me. I was never a fan of Webbers, so i have no interest in defending him. I have , however, had experience of racing, and so can speak with a modicum of experience. Passing is normally done on the inside of corners, and rarely on the outside, for fear of running off track at the exit. In this case, it was Hamilton who was trying to finish an overtaking move, and miscalculated. In fact, I have always put this incident down to a "racing incident" where both drivers failed to use a little common sense. But there seem to be some who claim that Webber DELIBERATELY rammed Hamilton. And if you look at my posts, did you not see me referring to Senna deliberately running Prost off the track, and telling him beforehand, that he would do so.

That's a straw man argument. The purpose of the Senna Prost Video was to demonstrate if the following driver can deffend the inside.

It is impossible to defend if you are following. Correct? Yes or No?

Finaly, who has more accountability the following driver or the driver up ahead?
Look on the Alonso pass on Shumacher at Suuka and be honest about it. Alonso was never clearly ahead and he cut in on Shumacher, Hamilton did not cut in on webber, yet Micheal braked earlier and turned in avoiding a collision.
Micheal had more responsibility becuase he had more visual information at his disposal.
I wasn't attacking you, but i really wanted to know if, based on so many examples in the past, that you truly believe the following driver has no responsibility at all to how he approaches a turn with another car.
Was Heiki responsible for Webber crashing into the back of him? You see, too many cases where you simply cannot blame the leading driver.

[lolzi]

Look on the Alonso pass on Shumacher at Suuka and be honest about it. Alonso was never clearly ahead and he cut in on Shumacher, Hamilton did not cut in on webber, yet Micheal braked earlier and turned in avoiding a collision.
Micheal had more responsibility becuase he had more visual information at his disposal.

I was actually VERY surprised when that happened, I was sure they would both be off - just goes to show (IMO) that Schumacher is getting less aggressive.
Sorry for the off topic, I just thought that was a very interesting episode.