I'm supporting not-Alonso

[Giblet]

I have yet to see any evidence other than strongly voiced opinions that Alonso was at all involved in #crashgate. #ordergate was as much a Ferrari culture thing as it was Alonso wanting past. #spygate was about Mclaren stealing info for it's drivers benefit.

Seems a little unfair to me to attribute these solely to him.

He has had his moments, don't get me wrong, but hate is blind just like love.

[siskue2005]

Giblet you can say the same for the examples you gave before

but i think people are not so naive to think Alonso is innocent, escpecially after seeing what all he did

Spygate email stuffs with cousin Pedro , its proven he cheated
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBPRSlzVdto

and he did block Lewis in pits ( like Schumy in monaco)
black mailed Ron
frequent moaning and bitching about how Renualt dont want him to win the WDC in 2006
Telling Ferrari are cheater, and also "anything but RED" comment and then sucking up their ass later
Moaning about how Massa is in front of him & asking him to move over(at least in Schumy's days team orders were legal)
and his antics in yesterday's race

a person who can do all these is surely capable of doing crashgate

[ringo]

No Schumi just parked his car on track to stop others from beating him.

Vettel made the 'woop woop' crazy finger about Webber.

Lewis publicly berated his teams strategy call over the radio. Thats like arguing with your girl in public. Uncouth.

Schumacher was better out of the car I must say.

That's an exaggeration and pales in comparison to Alonso's hand waving.
What lewis has done other drivers have done before. If you team messed you up, you have all right to tell them over the radio.
Button has done it countless times in 2009, so has Barichello. Those kinds of protests are related to strategy that the team is in control of and can do something about.

Alonso gets furious over things he has no control of and has no right to be angry about.

[Giblet]

Sure I see your point, don't get me wrong, but I am just presenting a valid counterpoint.

There is no doubt that Lewis, Ron, and Fred were all circling around data from spygate. The entire team benefited from that dossier.

Stopping Lewis from making his pitstop, he never pretended like Schumi-Rascasse that it was anything other than what it was. Schumi played the innocent but was caught red handed and was given a reprimand, as well as closed door trouncing by the entire GPDA.

No proof of crashgate involvement, means innocent until proven guilty.

I see no reason to single out Fernando, as like you said, I can say the same about the examples I have given before.

I don't understand why you think he is any worse than anyone else is all I am trying to say.

See Ringo, I think part of it is we never, ever get the whole story. I do agree however that Lewis' radio calls were not as bad, but still very unsportsmanlike and a good example of letting your emotions get the better of you.

For 'ordergate', we don't know what was discussed before the race. Maybe the team said "Felipe, if Fernando is clogging your mirrors, we need you to let him by for the team". Maybe this was expected of him, so Alonso coming over the radio saying "This is ridiculous" could be exactly that.

[siskue2005]

Sure I see your point, don't get me wrong, but I am just presenting a valid counterpoint.

There is no doubt that Lewis, Ron, and Fred were all circling around data from spygate. The entire team benefited from that dossier.

Stopping Lewis from making his pitstop, he never pretended like Schumi-Rascasse that it was anything other than what it was. Schumi played the innocent but was caught red handed and was given a reprimand, as well as closed door trouncing by the entire GPDA.

Schumy said he was innocent and so did Alonso giving stupid excuse about talking to his engineer....when the lolipop guy was frantically waving him by!
Tell me what was different in both case, both got punished

I see no reason to single out Fernando, as like you said, I can say the same about the examples I have given before.

I don't understand why you think he is any worse than anyone else is all I am trying to say.

other people have done similar things, but only Alonso has done everything together, it will be a long list
see this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBPRSlzVdto

For 'ordergate', we don't know what was discussed before the race. Maybe the team said "Felipe, if Fernando is clogging your mirrors, we need you to let him by for the team". Maybe this was expected of him, so Alonso coming over the radio saying "This is ridiculous" could be exactly that.

were you there with ferrari team when they decided that?

[Giblet]

No of course I wasn't there, but as viewers, we never get the whole picture. We can't say with any certainty what goes on behind closed doors, which is my point. I was merely offering a valid possible scenario, just as likely and valid as the one you have.

We don't get enough information, especially about the 'gates to make a proper informed decision.

Many things we see have lots of factors behind them we nwill never know, therefore we are not in a position to 'know' anything.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but nobody can 'know' they are right about these kinds of things. There is so much grey to go through before seeing anything black and white.

[siskue2005]

ok, i can see your point here

[segedunum]

Well, I hear people say that there is never any real evidence etc. etc. but when you see smoke often you have to ask yourself where the fire is likely to be.

[Goran2812]

Vettel making crazy gestures classy?

Hamilton and his list of unclassy moments?

Schumacher and his antics?

the point is to not throw stones in glass houses. Alonso is the worst person the sport has ever seen. He bitvhes andmoans at other dirvers but his own tactics are worse than you'll find in a school yard in the Bronks.

I don;t recall Schumacher ever complaining bitterly about other drivers unsportsmanlike behaviours He gave what he recieved. Alonso loves to give but not recieve. The sport has never had a more selfish, complaining, spoilt little bully of a boy hold the WDC. I trust he never will again.
With Kubica, Vettel, Hulkenberg, Hamilton, Button, Rosberg, Schumacher, all likely to be in competitive cars next year,His chances are looking pretty dull. But I am sure he will simply get Ferrari to threaten another break away championship so the FIA can engineer him a title

wow... you really do hate... A LOT!
i'd write so much stuff to you now,but you're not worth my extra time...

this thread should be closed

[Giblet]

this thread should be closed

Why? Everyone is talking civily and making excellent points. it wasn't until your comment

wow... you really do hate... A LOT!
i'd write so much stuff to you now,but you're not worth my extra time...

that it became about the poster and not the post.

[nipo]

If you ask me why I'm in the not-Alonso league, I'll tell you it's not because of his cheats and his misbehaviours on and off track. It is because the lack of respect for anyone and a very selfish mindset. I don't intend to debate that, it's an objective view.

Whether he directly caused the crashgate or not, if it weren't Alonso, together with his whining, it wouldn't have happened. He's talented as a driver that I cannot deny, but there probably won't be a day where I'll be cheering for him. Period.

[andrew]

Trouble does seem to follow Alonso around. At McLaren it was spygate, Renault was crashgate and Ferrari overtake gate and fistgate. The guy is a magnate for trouble. It's not as if you could argue that it was the same team boss manipulating things as each of these teams has had different management.

The truth will come out eventually and I sincerely hope that it shows Alonso has been instrumental in his various gates. I wonder what it'll be next year.

[BMW_F1]

He's talented as a driver that I cannot deny,..

Period.. That is that it matters. - Ferrari, the best team in F1 has decided to bring him into their family.. For obvious reasons, if they think like you do, they would never have hired him. It is crystal clear that to most people in the paddock, this notion that Alonso is a bad person, in inconceivable.

[nipo]

He's talented as a driver that I cannot deny,..

Period.. That is that it matters. - Ferrari, the best team in F1 has decided to bring him into their family.. For obvious reasons, if they think like you do, they would never have hired him. It is crystal clear that to most people in the paddock, this notion that Alonso is a bad person, in inconceivable.

Wise men will see how he tends to leave behind a wreck and jump ship to another team. Ferrari are probably safer that way because by now Alonso has run out of teams to jump ship to so maybe he'll be a better boy and not complain too much. Let's see.

On another note, Ferrari management these few years were not the brightest on earth, so I would say they are making fairly funny decisions, esp the way they brought Alonso into the team. But I've written enough about that before so let's not go back to it.

[andrew]

The mistake for Ferrari management was loosing Jean Todt and Ross Brawn.