Mercedes GP - Inauguration and 1st season

[marcush.]

ross is in the position not by luck ....he was out of it after quitting Ferrari and came back and look he made Honda champ even if they were not involved anymore when it happened.
He might be unable to design a F1 car but he was able to guide a 500+ headcount towards a title assault that was successful even though the team owner decided to quit even before season start.
I´d say that is quite an achievement obn its own right.Plus it was a first in history that a new team arrived in F1 took all the silverware and disappeared after one season .
quite a feat ...take all the trophys + take home a truckload of cash.

I have heard to make a small fortune from a racing business you would have to start with a big one...Brawn spend 1 pound and got millions out of it +is listed as WCC in the history of the sport... in one line with Mclaren,Ferrari,Brabham,cooper-please forgive for ommitting others...

[Giblet]

Yes you can. The blatantly obvius point you miss in your determination to run with the anti-Schumacher agenda is that he can just race for the hell of it and the sheer enjoyment.

Maybe in weekend kart racing, but if you don't to do anything but win in any top level sport, you should just go home.

[segedunum]

Most of Schumacher's fans would dearly like to think that he's racing just for the hell of it after this season, which is why they say it, but no, no Formula 1 driver can race 'for enjoyment'. He is there to win otherwise he fails.

[segedunum]

begging won't distract from the facts: Ross Brawn has a technical background and has been responsible the concepts of many race cars, including the Jaguar XJR-14 and all of the Ferrari F1 cars under his management. If you doubt thisask Rory Byrne yourself.

Well, while that's great and everything he's going to get nowhere without appointing a solid chief designer and head of aerodynamics as well as a technical officer. Those two people in his Ferrari days were Rory Byrne and Nikolas Tombazis. Even Adrian Newey has them in Rob Marshall and Peter Promodrou because as Chief Technical Officer he can't get bogged down by all the small details any more. As Team Principal, Ross Brawn is going to have little to no impact on what Mercedes is able to design so arguing about his technical background has no bearing at all.

[andrew]

Most of Schumacher's fans would dearly like to think that he's racing just for the hell of it after this season,

Nope, I said it before the season started when testing was looking promising.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Ross Brawn is going to have little to no impact on what Mercedes is able to design so arguing about his technical background has no bearing at all.

You cannot be serious. I think you are here for effect segedunum, because obviously Brawn being at Honda for 14 months resulted in the BGP001. How convenient you forget that, despite it flying in the face what you just dredged up.

You doubt Mercedes you doubt Brawn and you doubt Schumacher. Noted, now move on.

[marcush.]

I cannot safely quantify just how big the element of luck is in F1 but considering the 30 years Brawn has spent in the business I´d say he should go betting if all his achievements result just from being a lucky boy...maybe he has irish ancestors???
You all cannot be serious .If F1 turned around a horde of semi knowledgeable people who just know perfectly how to play the politics fiddle for what reason this very forum had justification to be around ? it would possibly be wiser to have a forum called F1 smarta.. then.

to me still true applied experience is worth a lot .Many people would like to make you think everything todays can be quantified ,calculated and simulated and maybe they are right to a degree.At the end of the day it strikes me that perhaps the cloud you are drawing with calculations is just too big to have a value in real world situations and a clever guy with good feel will converge towards a similar solution rather rapidly as well and be able to decide more proactive and inspirational when others still are trying to adjust their fudge factors...sure not in all fields but tyres seem to be a good example there.

[xpensive]

What's so difficult to understand here, Ross Brawn is not an engineer and never was, he's a technician who started out at the milling machine for MrM. You can learn a lot of things from "doing", but I be surprsed if designing F1 cars is one of them.

I find it a lot easier to believe that a perceptive and street-smart person with the ability to make friends in imortant places, can becone a "Technical Director" from "learning by doing". I have worked for one or two of that kind actually.

[timbo]

What's so difficult to understand here, Ross Brawn is not an engineer and never was, he's a technician who started out at the milling machine for MrM. You can learn a lot of things from "doing", but I be surprsed if designing F1 cars is one of them.

I find it a lot easier to believe that a perceptive and street-smart person with the ability to make friends in imortant places, can becone a "Technical Director" from "learning by doing". I have worked for one or two of that kind actually.

x, the line is blurred.
Sure what he does is management, but I think 90% of what Newey does is management too.
And it's not like he HAS to work with Byrne to yield something successful, BGP001 is an indication of that.

[andrew]

Sure Ross Brawn doesn't have an engineering degree but he has years of experience in engineering. Experience outweighs a piece of paper from a University any day.

[marcush.]

is it only possible to aquire knowledge on university?
I have attended some open to public lecture I found interesting to me but very rarely it was what I really was looking for tbh..
when it comes to true talent I´d think the real virtuosos in music never had to go to school learning what they do ...it was just a few if any minor things they could be teached.
We should not mix up beeing born for something and doing it with some guy thinking he knows it all because he has served an apprenticeship in a garage...
speaking from my perspective i surely know my limits and do not hesitate to draw in specialists when I realise that I´m on thin ice... I heard Brunner and Gascoyne(?)are similarily not really interested in doing calculations ....for sure Brunner had always guys around him doing the details.
Brawn as I know it was called the brain ...and I read somewhere (cannot remember where) that Byrne excelled at conceptual work whereas Brawn was the master in detailing it all out ..you need definitely the maths to go along with the detailing.
Newey doing bureaucratic work ? I honestly doubt he would be available to even produce a summary of his work done on a wekly or montly base..a genius rarely is good at the "normal" stuff.so him pressing into organisational stuff would remove all the asset .He needs his own world where he can develop ideas and infect the boffins in the design area with his spark...

[segedunum]

You cannot be serious. I think you are here for effect segedunum, because obviously Brawn being at Honda for 14 months resulted in the BGP001.

I am serious. At Honda where 2008 was shelved and he had some time on his hands he almost certainly had a hand in directing the search for a loophole they could really work with based on past experience, but he probably wouldn't have found that loophole himself. The notion that a Team Principal is going to have a permanent hand in hand-holding the development of a team's cars is exceptionally naive at best.

By intimating that Brawn is going to magically micromanage the development of next year's car you simply show a terrible lack of knowledge as to how an organisation can possibly work, but then, that's nothing new.

[segedunum]

Sure what he does is management, but I think 90% of what Newey does is management too.

Newey spends at least a day at home each week dreaming up new ideas. Being a Team Principal is on an entirely different level.

Sure Ross Brawn doesn't have an engineering degree but he has years of experiance in engineering. Experiance outweighs a piece of paper from a University any day.

Ross Brawn's past successes have been as a result of standing on the shoulders of people who do have letters after their name and a long list of practical experience.

[segedunum]

Nope, I said it before the season started when testing was looking promising.

....and? The point still stands. A Formula 1 driver does not drive for 'fun', and Michael Schumacher will be judged on results and not on the fun he had whether anyone likes it or not.

[andrew]

Sure Ross Brawn doesn't have an engineering degree but he has years of experiance in engineering. Experiance outweighs a piece of paper from a University any day.

Ross Brawn's past successes have been as a result of standing on the shoulders of people who do have letters after their name and a long list of practical experience.

Letters after your name counts for little in real life. For example, I have a BSc(Hons) in Building Survfeying, part of which included construction technology. Now I can easily draw/describe a host of construction details, but I'll guarantee that I would hopelessly struggle compared to a joiner or builder who has no letters and only has experience. Book knowledge is one thing but knowing how to translate that into real life applications successfully is a whole other ball game.

Nope, I said it before the season started when testing was looking promising.

....and? The point still stands. A Formula 1 driver does not drive for 'fun', and Michael Schumacher will be judged on results and not on the fun he had whether anyone likes it or not.

Judged on results alone by those with a biased agenda. Judged on his entire career by true fans of the sport.