Mercedes GP - Inauguration and 1st season

[segedunum]

Did I "intimate" that? Nope.
Did you assume that? Yes.

Did you try and tell us that Ross Brawn came to Honda in 2008 and they magically found a loophole for the following season, therefore intimating that they would be able to repeat that? Why yes, you did.

Can you actually intimate that? Why, yes you can......otherwise there would have been no point at all in you writing it, would there?

Brawn directs his technical staff

He doesn't direct any technical staff. Thats the job of his technology officer, and I don't even know who that is at Mercedes.

You jump on them for being 4th this year conveniently forgetting the team went through a restructuring phse where 40% of the team was cut loose.

They were the richest team on the grid JET. We've been over this and you keep repeating it as if it hasn't been discussed and side-stepped.

Well Seg, if it were your word or his I guarantee you most will take Brawn's over yours.

When you're invested in something your word isn't going to be terribly impartial. I'm sorry JET, but responding to things with "Ross Brawn says...." isn't debating or discussing anything. Really, it isn't.

What exactly did Mercedes GP/Honda and Brawn do to you?

Nothing. Why do you keep repeating stuff endlessly, over and over, when it has been debunked and hung out to dry umpteen times? I haven't forgotten it. Why have you?

[segedunum]

Exactly why Brawn is technical director.....This marks him out and why he is the man for Mercedes.

He's not a Technical Director. He's a Team Principal. I suggest you do some reading around as to what's required in that job. It's intensely bureaucratic. Just because Ross Brawn is a well known name and he's been involved with some major successes in the past that doesn't mean that Mercedes will acquire success by association.

So, did you intimate with that that because Ross Brawn being around has correllated with some success in the past that he 'is the man' for Mercedes to create a better car? Yes, you did. Given that you've got Ross Brawn's job title wrong are you intimating that he's going to micromanage some technical success? Yes, you are.

As Will Ferrell said in Zoolander, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with the stuff you see on this thread.

[marcush.]

the thread`s named:Inauguration and 1st season..
so Mercedes boughtBrawn Gp at the end of last year to do things on their own right spending less money in doing this having more control..
They hired Rosberg ,Heidfeld as added (noticeable to the broader public) new staff and suddenly came up with Schumi to make it a real real silverarrow dream constellation.
Apart from the very impressive history Mercedes GP had in the good ol days.. the whole thing was pushed and hyped up in the media and as it came up during those crisis days
in Automotive industry it was controversial from the word go.
To see them falling flat on their face is something a lot of people out htere have waited for just too long to mis when it happened sort of ...thats perfectly understandable .
I think it really was just a bit too optimistic to assume Schumi comes in and joins the Champions team and it will all be nothing else than more silverware from the word go.
now second year is starting..if it´s going bad it will not be as in the firsst year in the media because they have shot all their bullets already.The pressure inside will be much bigger and for sure Brawn,Haug ,Schumacher are the ones who have to go if it does not work.
Can anyone say why they did not snap up Willis? i can´t believe he will stay with HRT.

And yes Brawn is team Principal.So why on earth are we discussing his lack of degrees ???

[xpensive]

And yes Brawn is team Principal.So why on earth are we discussing his lack of degrees ???

Because some members and other individuals, Norbert Haug included if you ask me, seem to have confused his previous position as "Technical director", with the ability to design a fast and reliable Formula One car.

Last time I checked, Sam Michael was a "Technical director", I doubt if he ever designed anything of the kind?

[timbo]

Because some members and other individuals, Norbert Haug included if you ask me, seem to have confused his previous position as "Technical director", with the ability to design a fast and reliable Formula One car.

No single person has the ability to design F1 car today.
Newey, Costa, Gascoyne etc etc — they are all leaders of their design teams.
I'd say Ross was successful in that regard.

[marcush.]

I´m not so sure if norby thinks Ross is brilliant at designing racecars ..but he has godd reason to think so ..as Mercedes got a huge wack by his Sportscar design for Jaguar in the first year of the ATMO Group C dayswhen Merc tried that monster almost(?) flat v12 engine....btw ..Schumacher driving ....was Norby already Chef de maison back then or was it old Manfred Jantke..do not remember.

[xpensive]

That's xactly my point marcush, NH is a journo, used to create his own news, in that capacity he was the conveyor of "facts" to Stuttgart, why my point is that he sugarcoated the proposal to buy Brawn GP by letting every member of said board know that the success of the team was down to the "Technical director" being the same as when MS won his WDCs.

In an environment of Dr this and that, this came across as entirely credible at the time.

[marcush.]

I hear you expensive and I think that your story is very close to what and how it was brought on track.
I think Norby was pushing it too much inside Mercedes to get the deal through and lost realism on his road ...this led to him not looking very ....lets say he looked a bit worn as the year progressed...and rightly so.
The jury is out if Brawn has what it takes to make Mercedes a winning team ,thats true .the clock is ticking down and I´m not convinced if he will be able to bag another title to his name.Íf i were Merc I´d think the guy is a bit too clever when it comes to
writing the bills methinks.I guess with the beancounters(err suits) in Stuttgart they will try to outsmart him sooner or later.

[xpensive]

Another point marcush, never try to con a con man, you don't rise to the top of the world of MrE and MrM by being a wimp, this guy is for real when it comes to wheeling and dealing. Who used the xpression "street smart" anyway?

Reminds me of my mid 90s, I was hired as a technical mediator between the Austrian, Graz at that, management and the local Pennsylvania hustlers in the s**t-for-technology company they had bought. Oh my, that was a cultural clash for you.

[segedunum]

Norbert looked worn out in Australia if you ask me, giving an interview inside McLaren's motorhome after their victory. Maybe he'd had a grilling then as Stuttgart thought "What the hell did we buy?". A little premature perhaps, but maybe Norbert painted a picture that the team's performance from the start of the year wasn't within a country mile of? When you're that far back anyone knows it's going to take a long time.

Ross Brawn's name is almost a milestone around the team's neck at the moment. The guy is a team principal now with all the aggravation that entails, and in the past he was only ever a technical director as good as the engineers and theoretical thinkers around him. I'm sure he did a good job of saying to his team three years back "2009 is a year we can make a big jump, so go and find me a loophole you can drive a truck through", but you can't keep that up.

Whereas I know a few names of people in various teams in technical roles who have designated responsibilities at Red Bull, Renault, Ferrari and Force India amongst others I have never been able to fathom who does what at Mercedes. Does anyone know? Even when the team was Honda it was impossible to see any kind of organisational structure there.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Right so Brawn has zero influence on the what happens with the car.
If you think that may I suggest a cup of Horlicks and early bed times. Because a man of his experience will wade into the process to see all is well or wether changes need to be made. He is more than a Whitmarsh or Horner which is effectively what you are getting at, and his role at Mercedes GP is now factory based....strange that eh seg????


And Brawn GP being the richest team on the grid means precisley zero. They dont exist and the money is no longer there. What has it got to do with anything Mercedes GP related other than you on a soapbox?

As for Brawns statements, are you suggesting now that we should not believe a man with one of the most succesful records in F1, and instead believe the ramblings of a person who has thus far only posted negative dross on these pages? Come now, your soap box is getting creakier with every post!

Norbert looked worn out in Australia if you ask me, giving an interview inside McLaren's motorhome after their victory. Maybe he'd had a grilling then as Stuttgart thought "What the hell did we buy?"

The Board have come out and said pretty much in no uncertain terms "painting the cars silver doesnt mean we have a right to win". So effectively, you making it all up as you go along, or is it your reading between the lines skills that have endeared you to the posters of this particular thread?
http://msn.planetf1.com/news/3213/65493 ... ay-from-F1

You will no doubt pass this off as PR or whatever. But as much as it riles you, Mercedes and their statemnets are here to stay for the next 2 years at least, get used to it for your own sanity.

[segedunum]

If I looked at a team that was winning and then at the same team that was miles away from the front in the following year I'd be wondering what had happened. It's as simple as that. Whereas I wouldn't necessarily expect the domination Brawn had at the start of 2009 I just wouldn't expect to be the thick end of two seconds off the pace. Mercedes can make as many reassuring noises as they like but it's an obvious question to ask.

Once again, at the risk of repeating myself and stating something no one wants to read, anyone who is expecting Ross Brawn to micromanage the development of next year's car needs to have a long hard look at what a Team Principal's role entails. Like I've asked before in a previous post, where the hell are the engineers responsible in that team and what positions do they hold? If even fans of Mercedes are expecting Ross Brawn to ride to the rescue because he's the only one they know in the team then there's something seriously wrong.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

If I looked at a team that was winning and then at the same team that was miles away from the front in the following year I'd be wondering what had happened

Read up what happened AFTER Honda pulled the plug. There is your answer. The out ward tide has been stemmed and now consolidation takes place.
Any team will suffer through a period like this, and to say they wont is just beyond logical.

Once again, at the risk of repeating myself

Past that point now, many months ago in fact.
It is not Mercedes GP's perogative to tell joe blogs how they run their concern. I think 4th place in the constructors tells you that these people are not clowns and can actually build a decent car without having outsiders question who does what.
To continuosly post after post harp on about how bad they are really does bring your agenda in to perspective.

[marcush.]

lets try...

Technical director :Loic Bigois

http://www.brawn-gp.info/loic-bigois.html

operations manager Gary Savage


design manager : Russell Cooley
chief designer:Kevin Taylor
http://www.f1network.net/main/s169/st87 ... ?fromrss=1
designer: John Owen

Head engineering:Jacky Eeckeleart

Head of engineering/dynamics :Craig Wilson
http://www.f1network.net/main/s169/st87926.htm

Senior Engineer Race track Jock Clear will be replaced by Tony Ross(formerly his engineer at Williams)Jock moving to a senior role within Mercedes GP.
Senior track engineer :Andrew Shovlin will be chief engineer ,replaced by Mark Slade in 2011

To me it does not look like they lack in terms of names in terms of engineering ,
but save Bigois I don´t know who is really a Aero guy there .they are looking for Aero and CFD guys recently ..

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Marcush

You or another poster posted that Mercedes were advertising for highly skill CFD engineers back in May I seem to remember.
Makes sense with the resource restriction looming, to go virtual. Although they do have a pretty good wind tunnel set up from what I read.