MercedesGP's KERS 2011

[Dirmelt]

Are Mercedes GP going to use Mercedes's KERS?

at end of 2008, Honda tested their KERS.
Honda's KERS seemed to be good performance.
therefore aren't they going to use Honda's KERS at 2011?

[NewtonMeter]

I think it will be difficult. It last ran 2 full years ago when development stopped. An merc continued development on theirs is by now probably somewhat ahead in technology. AND, the merc engine was designed for the merc kers. AAAAAND, the merc engineers will have experience and knowledge of their system, while I think many, if not most, of the Honda KERS engineers were retrenched at the start of 2009 with the downsizing (why keep them if your not going to use the system, right?). So the personnel won't be the there to use it properly.

Just my take on it, though. I'm wrong sometimes. It happesn...

[Dirmelt]

oh......

i did not know that Brown GP have not inherited Honda's KERS.

since being acquired by Mercedes, Honda KERS development completely disappeared.

ok, i see

[NewtonMeter]

oh......

i did not know that Brown GP have not inherited Honda's KERS.

since being acquired by Mercedes, Honda KERS development completely disappeared.

ok, i see

Well I assume they didn't inherit it for a few reasons:

Chief among which is the very article on which I assume this post is based on:
http://www.f1technical.net/news/15792?s ... 3b7b199f97

During the EVS 25 electric vehicle expo in Shanghai earlier this months, Honda engineers presented a glimpse into the development of an advanced high-performance electric motor that Honda had designed as part of a KERS (Kinetic Energy Recovery System) intended for its 2009 Formula One race car.

With emphasis on Honda. Not MercGP Engineers. So I assume, when honda packed up, they took their kers with them as well (it might be beneficial to keep the research for their road cars). Just as they took their engine too when they left.

Secondly, I don't think MercGP would have made public how their system works if they intend on still using it. It would give the competition a usefull amount of info on how their system functions. While in F1, secrecy is the Genesis right through to Revelation.

[Timstr]

Certainly Mercedes GP now has all the data on the packaging choices that were made for the Honda RA109. The lateral mounting of the MGU in the Honda system might be relevant for Mercedes, given the current no-refueling rule requiring a large fuel capacity in an as compact as possible space.

[autogyro]

Hmm lots and lots of gears.

[mach11]

Ultimately it will depend on how the drivers cope with the technology.. Schumi has not been a part of the K.E.R.S development period (might have tested it with ferrari.. just guess) and i think the williams did not run the K.E.R.S during 2009... so nico might not have got a chance to use the system...

But when you consider the time taken for them to develop the system I feel the Merc have an advantage over the others but it ultimately depends upon the 2011 challenger..

[bew79]

I would have thought by this stage all technical ties with what was Honda F1 had ceased. Also didn't Mercedes develop their own KERS as used by McLaren in 2009, Brawn had the option to use it but did not, the Honda system has never been used?

[marcush.]

as far as I remember Honda were one of the early and intense testers of KERS in 2008...so they know a bit even thogh they decided not to race with KERS..Funny that a car developped for KERS and a Honda engine could be so dominant not running with it and hastily adapted to merc power....

[scarbs]

The Honda system outlined in that presentation was Honda R&D's KERS. Honda R&D being the parent company in tochigi, Japan. HondaF1 also developed their own KERS, partnering Jon Hiltons flybrid compnay using with a flywheel solution.
The HondaR&D solution was track tested albeit not in the undernose battery configuration we saw in the CAD images. Meanwhile the Flywheel solution was designed but a chassis was never made to accommadate it.

When Honda pulled out the electric KERS and other development projects disappeared back to Japan, within hours of the announcement.

Thus that electric KERS system will not be raced by Mercedes, they do not even have the inside details for it.

[Morteza]

Great stuff Scarbs =D> So Honda had developed two KERS systems but none of them got a chance to start a race for 2009. That BGP 001 must have cost Honda a big deal of money.
I wonder if we're gonna have a KERS war in 2011 like the engine war we had in 2010 about Renault engine being inferior.

[twoshots]

Also didn't Mercedes develop their own KERS as used by McLaren in 2009, Brawn had the option to use it but did not...[snip]...?

Yes.

[vasstech]

Also didn't Mercedes develop their own KERS as used by McLaren in 2009, Brawn had the option to use it but did not...[snip]...?

Yes.

I'm new to this forum, but I must say how interesting certain posts are.

So to clarify pls "Twoshots", what you are saying is that the Mc laren's KERS used in their 2009 campaign will be available for Mercedes F1 to use. I thought it was partly designed by Mc Laren electronics, but like I say I don't know this for sure.

Either way, if both Mc Laren and Merecedes use the same system in 2011 it will only be Hamilton who has previously used such a system previously.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The KERS unit as used by McLaren in 2009, was actually a collaboration between Zytek and Mercedes-Benz High Performance Engines.
McLaren have no input in the design process or technical input other than what requirements they need.
ie. Make it lighter or specified power delivery characteristics.

Interesting to read scarbs post, that it's Hondas R&D that holds the KERS plans. Would brawn gp and previous Honda staff not have had some idea of what it was they were putting into the car? Being engineers I'm sure they would have wanted to know what the parent company had come up with?

[marcush.]

They sure got a lot of information and have a very good idea of the capabilities and the drawbacks of the unit.
with all that information avaialble ..Brawn decided to ditchthe KERS for 2009 and rightly so...considering how long it took Macs to arrive at their really good KERS package it is rather obvious that Brawn had for once the right feeling if not the engineering degree to commit to the right direction...
to me Mercedes GP looks to be the Team with the deepest insight of current 2009 KERS technology ,followed by Macs who were involved in developping the best KERS package throughout 2009...
One says you learn most from your big mistakes...so the teams who did not tackle KERS are at a major disadvantage...
Renault,Sauber,Ferrari should have learned an awful lot in 2009 ...but what about the conservative ones? Do they start at zero ? Or is it possible to learn from the mistakes of your opponents?
RedBull to me looks very likely to be one of the teams that may struggle.Why? simply because Newey is a guy prepared to take risks and even more so when having fulfilled the task of bagging the championship already.Taking risks with 2009 type kers could be an area where the potential pitfalls are bigger than possible gains in my view.