Mercedes GP - Inauguration and 1st season

[marcush.]

well ...now thats a deal...but Alt is not really Hoggemer beer ...even though i have to admit I have no expertise in beer.but that should also be manageable.

[segedunum]

according to the reports Brawn only survived due to a substantial loan received from the board members in March 2009..If they had not reduced by 100 to 450 it would just not have been possible to make it to the first GP.

The directors loaned £3.4 million, as detailed elsewhere. I would hazard a guess that was paid back with interest so the team would have paid for money it already had in effect. RB must have had a hell of a lot of fun. The figure is just too small for this to add up given the sums they had from elsewhere, and they would have had those guaranteed well in advance of March 2009 otherwise it would have been pointless for them to even test. It just looks a bit fishy.

I didn't find mention of this loan in the article you link to, but what it does do is give a pretty good impression of what was going on in 2009. The factory was seemingly working as it always had, all the same people were there, many from the BAR days, and they had models of the 2010 car running from May. It's as decent an insight as I've seen, if a little PR driven, and I certainly don't see the picture of development crisis and compromise that's been painted. I didn't see anything that said 'we could only afford to run our wind tunnel for one or two days a week'. I saw nowhere that the 2010 car was ever going to be compromised.

[marcush.]

what could drive the cost ? Electricity and maintainance of the equipment ,extra hours of work,outsourcing and material cost (things you do not have in stock),consultancy ..
all other things are set in stone or you lay of people but you will have to pay gardening leave or compensation so no short time benefit there.
with them having reduced their workforce and fighting for the championship it is clear they did not really focus on the new contender but it explains why they went for the design of it:
when you sell your product ,hell that W01 looked really the part with that blade rollhoop and unique nosejob,the V-section tub and all flaws of 2009 straightened.so basically they did something to please the Merc board but nothing or not enough in the area you cannot see as an amateur and concentrated on their 2009 campaign.
to me this is really not difficult to understand and in effect it is just confirming that mercedes GP as it is was not doing as good a job as they needed to do for 2010
because they did not put enough effort (or the right people )behind that project early on.
Mind you Joerg Zander left Brawn early on in the season..maybe that was the reason..he felt that Brawn was prepared to compromise the 2010 season to make sure they won the 2009 titles.and the word is they were not reaching consent about the technical direction.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Nice find there Marcush

I think when all the facts are accounted in chronological order, there is nothing for Brawn to be ashamed of. He kept a concern running along with 450 staff keeping their jobs.
Personally speaking, I dont think we should be questioning his morals, I think he has done more for his staff than most.

If he were american I can bet you the team would have been assett stripped!

[xpensive]

...
Personally speaking, I dont think we should be questioning his morals, I think he has done more for his staff than most.
...

Sometime I wonder if you ever bother to read mine and seg's posts at all JET? Questioning his morals...good Lord...

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

There were a few lines earlier in the thread X

I do belive accusations of greed and dishonesty were being levelled non?
Morals....

On a lighter note, can you please tell me of any hotels for me and a couple of mates next year? Wouldnt want to camp, just see my boys(Merc GP) stuff it up the Maccas next year and retire to a lap of some luxury!!

[xpensive]

Simpel really JET, as soon as RB himself agrees to become a decent flamish-refomert christan, I will bring a herd of my own mistresses, why lodging will be less of a problem.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Xpensive

A herd of mistresss? They dont all look like cows do they?

Seriuously though, where do you see Mercedes GP being next year?

[andrew]

Seriuously though, where do you see Mercedes GP being next year?

I have a gut feeling that they will be in Bahrain, then they will move to Austrailia, then onto Malaysia etc etc....

Seriously though, the car was coming good in the last few races so clearly Merc must know what was wrong and at least in part know how to rectify it. If the Pirelli's and weight distribution work out as Merc hope, I think we will see more of Schumacher from the good ol' days and obviously Rosberg is no slouch either. If all goes to plan, Merc will definately be the cheif proverbial wotsit in the wood pile for Red Bull and Ferrari. (Before anyone says anything, I am fully aware of the high number of ifs).

As long as they don't build a car that looks as though a portly chap has sat on the nose....

[xpensive]

I don't know, with RBR being what they are nowadays, Ferrari up to speed and McLaren being where they always are?

Without another "unfair advantage", like the DDD, I can't really see MGP setting the tracks alight in 2011 either.

[marcush.]

exp has a point there .Merc needs to step up considerably to beat those who finished the season in front of them.Ferrari seems to be determined to go the whole way and Macs would surprise me not coming up with something good...So to make a step Merc needs a bit of help from RedBull relaxing a bit perhaps.
I´m not sure if the structures in RedBull are as settled as Maclaren`s and they are able to sustain the momentum they built up to claim that title...
In terms of KERS ,Mercedes /Macs is in advanatge in2011 but not that much.I think it will depend on newey finding the next barndoor loophole as his last one is now closed as it looks.

[Morteza]

Ferrari were doing pretty well along with McLaren in 2010 but Mercedes came nowhere near Red Bulls and couldn't even for podiums(They were doing nicely in the last races but were not fast enough to catch top 3 teams). I don't know whether Mercedes can close the gap for 2011 or not. It is something really difficult to do and as Marcus said with Red Bull having Newey it will be even more difficult, let alone Ferrari and McLaren on the other hand. We may be sure that they are not gonna mess things up in 2011 like they did in 2010 and they're gonna be stronger. What I don't have faith in is their technical staff in whom I didn't find anyone with great experience and talent.

[marcush.]

I won´t go as far .They do have experience and they have expertise in Mercedes GP,no doubt about it.Lacj of talent is not their problem methinks.
But we have to realise that Mercedes has deliberately decided not to spend as much as they did when involved with Mclaren...
the now big three have decided not to follow the recource restriction plans that is contributing to a tendency of retaining the current pecking order.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

But we have to realise that Mercedes has deliberately decided not to spend as much as they did when involved with Mclaren...

Marcush,

This isnt strictly true. Mercedes gave Mclaren £80 million a season + engines with no kickback from Sponsors. Mclaren had a peachy deal, and Mercedes too(when Mclaren won).
Mercedes investment in F1 has remained the same, no cuts or rises. The money due to Mclaren has been diverted to Mercedes GP, which in turn generates its own cash from sponsors. So the real figure is around 120-140 million per annum.
Furthermore, Mercedes recieved huge amounts of cash from the sale of their stake in Mclaren F1, circa 170 million(really cant find much other than 40% of £400million valuation).

I like that Mercedes are not going down the traditional manufacturer route of spending vast sums to get glory. Some say the doing it on the cheap, but maybe they boxing clever?

As for the resource restriction, it will eventually happen in some guise or another. But I understand that teams agreed a ratification of the RRA in the last 4 weeks that has not got much publicity.

[xpensive]

But one might try to see things on from the positive end, other than the big three, there's not much in terms of opposition? Williams is practically a pay-driver team, Renault has pulled out and Sauber is back were they were a dozen years ago.