Complaint

[manchild]

About locking of viewtopic.php?p=216789&f=1 and the tone used by moderator

What is wrong in suggesting that F1 helps people in need living in a country that will host ceremony and GP?

This site is a not a place for what? Not a place where one can say "I think that if F1 comes to a country where a quarter of a billion starves, than it could show some humanity and give small bit of yearly profit to those people"?

Why, what is wrong with some of you people sitting comfortably in your warm homes with full bellies? This disturbs you or what? Brings up non-cheerful issues? Well that is real life.

At least to me, F1 was always one of the few remained reminders of knighthood, honor and real human values. Drivers were saving each other from burning wrecks, being really great, donating huge amounts of money to charity like Senna did etc.

Now we face the situation that F1 comes to a country where a quarter of a billion people starve, where 1000 children die every day, and when someone points out that pretending that is just another GP is immoral, wrong, totally out of spirit of my previous admiration for what F1 used to shine with, and that it could easily regain some of its human side by giving up on profit, I get shut up.

I wasn't just criticizing the situation but suggested an idea. If idea was bad, ok, I'd listen like to hear better ones, but this kind of "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil - stick your head in the sand" kind of censorship is really pathetic.

[andrew]

This is an F1 FORUM, not a POLITICAL FORUM.

Locking was correct before that thread became an on-line soap box.

[PNSD]

I hate to say because it sounds horrible, but that is life as it is.

It's not f1's fault these people are homeless or starving. It's a classic case of the rich get richer the poor get poorer. But it is what it is. That is how India has been for a long time and will continue to be so. It is sad but its true. You should also consider that whilst F1 costs alot of money, the sport will bring in revenue for local business operating in and around the circuit and Dheli.

In an ideal world sportsmen and women would not earn the amount of money they do, and the rest of the money would go to making the world a better place but thats not what it is.

If your going that attitude, why the hell should F1 exist? Why not spend the money on something useful and productive for a greater amount of people?

China, and Bahrain are two other countries not exactly top of the list either. Indians work in Bahrain for yearly wages that would equate to a weeks worth if he or she were a Bahrain national. Thats just 1 of an infinate number of examples where humans suck as a race.

edit/ I realize theres no structure to this post, so I apologize!

[manchild]

This is an F1 FORUM, not a POLITICAL FORUM.

Locking was correct before that thread became an on-line soap box.

I haven't mentioned politics at all but something illogical. The thread was about India, so I was on topic. The thread wasn't about suspension or driver's skills, but exactly about a country which is by default a political term if you like it.

India is not just rich ones who will invest in GP or attend, India is not just Force India, those starving ones are as much India as those previously mentioned, and the thread was about India as whole unless some of you disregard starving ones as irrelevant part of India society!

I was suggesting that F1 could do something similar to what these guys have done 26 years ago in a different area of business.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5cX_ncZLls[/youtube]

They could have said "well, world is a shitty place, rich are getting richer, poor are getting poorer, we can't hold a concert for free or record a single for charity" but they did because they were much better people that any we can find in F1 today!

[andrew]

The sad truth is that's life. Someone unfortunately has to be at the bottom. I don't like it anymore than you do but that's the way things work.

There are starving people and those who live in abject poverty world wide so why stop at India? F1 visits many countries with such people and where the gap between the haves and the have nots is massive.

Anyway I am outwith the realms of F1 Technical so will stop on this thread.

[manchild]

The sad truth is that's life. Someone unfortunately has to be at the bottom. I don't like it anymore than you do but that's the way things work.

There are starving people and those who live in abject poverty world wide so why stop at India? F1 visits many countries with such people and where the gap between the haves and the have nots is massive.

Exactly, and why couldn't it?

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke

If people before us have just said "oh well, things are what they are" the world would have never changed for the better. We are not on the top of civilization level, this is not as good as it can be, and it can be different.

So, how about a petition for something like "F1 for India"

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2W4-0qUdHY[/youtube]

[Steven]

manchild, please... previous examples have shown politics cause nothing but havoc. I don't we need more fights or let the thread go so far that we cannot do otherwise but to ban members.

The thread was correctly locked. The ban on politics is one of the most strict we apply, and there is reason for that.

And as mentioned before, this is a motorsport/f1 forum, not a place to discuss or resolve the world's problems. One forum wouldn't suffice for that anyway.

[manchild]

It was just two men - Bob Geldof and Midge Ure who came up with Band Aid in 1984. Just two men with no internet to promote their idea, using their area of business to start an avalanche of global support for their idea and enormous donations. They've succeeded because they did more than what was expected of them, because they've moved the border of common up to that point.

There are thousands of us here in area that is related to the problem I was mentioning much more than it touched their music business back then. But it touched their hearts at first.

No politics here, just an idea on a very visited web place, a good and humane idea of how F1 could help people of country it visits.

Nothing else.

[WhiteBlue]

This thread should be locked as well. You cannot run an internet forum with the users discussing what the mods are supposed to do. The admin owns the place and sets the policy which is executed by the moderators. The users accept that with their user agreement. If this place is not for political discussions there should be no public debate about it.

[Jon]

I agree with manchild. He is not promoting a political view...just a humane view.

There's nothing wrong with that. I say let him express his view. If someone else gets political when discussing the topic, then throw the rulebook at him.

[segedunum]

It's a thread that would probably have got seriously out of hand. Yes, more than threads about how powerful Renault's engines are....... If it's related to motor racing then fair enough, but I'm afraid no one is going to change the world or have any productive discussion over politics.

I'll give you my view.....

I am fed up to the back teeth with being made to feel that I am somehow responsible for the world being a bit of a crappy place. Formula One could pump most of its revenue into India and I'm afraid it wouldn't make one iota of difference. God knows how many trillions have been pumped into Africa. Result? Nothing.

Band Aid and Live Aid were total frauds, as most appeals are. Most of the food when it arrives gets into the hands of unscrupulous people or people promise to spend the money they have been given wisely, but who's going to notice a few tens of millions going missing here and there? In the Asian tsunami the hotels were rebuilt, but the help for ordinary people to rebuild their homes never materialised. Panorama in the UK on the BBC did an investigation and it was very telling how many of the charities were up in arms afterwards.

Let's not be naive about the way the world works and let's not have the wool pulled over our eyes when the word 'charity' is mentioned. Charities are tax free businesses running amok. Nothing more.

[donskar]

I agree with manchild's moral position, but I support the moderator's action.

[Giblet]

Choosing your fields of battle is important. For example, there is a game I play called subspace.

Shameless Plug

Now, I've been playing this online multiplayer game since the mid 90's and it's still going strong. It's focus is piloting your ship better and having better aim than your opponents. Akin to racing in many ways.

The reason I bring it up is there is this chap named "Spinsanity" who comes into _our_ zone and starts spamming about all the evils of the American political system, and has been consistently doing this for years. He actually never plays, and doesn't care that he is in the wrong forum.

My point is, I come here to discuss, and learn about F1, for no other reason than I love the sport and discussing it, and don't want the site cluttered with highly charged debates that _aren't_ about F1.

So yeah, I agree with donskar.

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

At least to me, F1 was always one of the few remained reminders of knighthood, honor and real human values. Drivers were saving each other from burning wrecks, being really great, donating huge amounts of money to charity like Senna did etc.

Now we face the situation that F1 comes to a country where a quarter of a billion people starve, where 1000 children die every day, and when someone points out that pretending that is just another GP is immoral, wrong, totally out of spirit of my previous admiration for what F1 used to shine with, and that it could easily regain some of its human side by giving up on profit, I get shut up.

So, if money is donated then all the problems are not something to worry any more. Typical of the current political bable that dominated the UN, many NGO's and many governments. You are an evil, careless human being if you don't fully share our opinion and give us money. Doesn't matter how wrong or not wrong you are. Do you really think the human aspects will become tolerable than if they throw money on it? No wonder you support PETA.

Funny how you don't mention a single time India was an ex-colony of UK. Maybe you and other British that act like you could stop transferring guilt to others and stop sending trash to my country and others with the help from donations done in the name of global warming.

I guess segendunum summed it all up quite nicely. F1 giving all of it's money wouldn't solve all this, a race there is not necessarily wrong and while I also agree there are very important human issues involved in India and in F1 I don't think the way you put things is correct and would solve anything, manchild. And together with your off-topic posts about the issues, the personal propaganda and the provocative and wrong finger pointing I guess moderators were right to close the topic.

Maybe a topic about this in the correct tone, without accusing people and institutions incorrectly, in the off-topic would be accepted?

But even then, I'm biased towards Giblet. It's an F1 forum and you have already kinda ruined the discussion of this subject.

[andrew]

Manchild - here's an idea. Instead of sitting and complaining to your fellow F1 Technical users, why don't you write to MrE/CVC, the FIA or even the Indian Government expressing your concerns and follow it up with a peaceful protest outside the track durig the Indian GP. None of us on here have the power to make any real difference, but the ones with money do. Remember, actions speak louder than words, and all I see is words here.

As for Live Aid, don't get me started on that crock! The only person who really benefited from that was Bob Geldof and his over inflated ego. Didn't solve anything really nearly 30 years later did it?

Anyway, time to give up on this thread as I hear the moderator key cabint being opened.