Gearbox Hydraulics

[ringo]

This thread is for an in detail look at gearbox hydraulics in F1. It was a very popular term in 2010 owing to virgin racing and their gearbox problems, but there was never an in depth discussion the topic before, and we can't go on pretending like we know anything about the F1 gearbox hydraulics.
"yep they had a hydraulics failure " when we don't know what the hell is going on in the casing.

What hydraulic systems are in the gearbox, and why are hydraulic failures so critical?
Cars have come to a stop all becuase of simple hydraulic seal failures. Teams also had year long issues with hydraulics, indicating that these systems are pretty complicated and precise.
So, for the fans on the outside such as my self, it would be neat if we had all knowledge of F1 gearbox hydraulics dumped into this thread by those who have access to such information.

[riff_raff]

ringo,

When a DNF is ascribed to a "gearbox hydraulic failure", it may just be a political answer. Anyone whose race budget relies on sponsorship dollars and technical support from key suppliers knows better than to blame a DNF on their product. It's like the old story about a race driver blaming his DNF on electrical failure: "Yep, it was electrical failure. A piston came out the side of the block and took out the battery"

I don't have any intimate knowledge of F1 gearbox hydraulic systems, but I'd speculate there are several different circuits performing different functions. There's likely a circuit for shift actuation, one for differential control, and one for clutch actuation. Also, the gearbox lube oil circuit is technically a hydraulic system.

riff_raff

[MadMatt]

F1 engines doesn't have much torque, so good point for them they do not need huge gears. I don't know if we have there real numbers available but we can estimate the torque at around 350Nm, can we ?

But I've got the feeling that finding detailed information about thoses gearboxes is gonna be (nearly) impossible. Like all the rest of the F1 stuff...

I will keep an eye on this thread tho, and will try to find more information to share !

[marcush.]

what about this for a start?
http://www.moog.com/literature/ICD/Race ... utions.pdf

they claim to have tested and aproved their products for use with the FIA spec
control unit and their availability to design and validate complete integrated
units/systems for the customer as well.

http://www.moog.com/literature/ICD/e024 ... ves-ds.pdf

hardware for gearbox,cluch,diff and throttle control... what else?

[ringo]

F1 engines doesn't have much torque, so good point for them they do not need huge gears. I don't know if we have there real numbers available but we can estimate the torque at around 350Nm, can we ?

But I've got the feeling that finding detailed information about thoses gearboxes is gonna be (nearly) impossible. Like all the rest of the F1 stuff...

I will keep an eye on this thread tho, and will try to find more information to share !

The information will show up somehow. This site has a way of obtaining information out of nowhere. It's already surprising how much knowledge is here.

[marcush.]

it´s all in the net you just have to know what to look for..

[ringo]

I found something pretty useful:

http://www.hydraulik-ring.com/fileadmin ... 7_1_en.pdf

Hilite International ehh..

Hilite´s Hydraulik-Ring Division is developing Automated Manual Transmissions since 1989. Hydraulik-Ring has developed the control unit and the actuator for the first series application in the Ferrari 355 F1.


System sheme and original installation position




Features of hydraulic shift for mechanical transmission:

* Gearshift linkage replaced by hydraulic actuators
* Low-cost
* Low adaption effort and expenditure
* Hardware for different vehicle series
* All transmission concepts (4,5,6-Gear) are covered
* Can even be implemented in current, ongoing series in short term




these parts seem to be the basic requirements for a electro hydraulic system. I don't know the names for them right of my head, i think they are in the pdf.
Amazing how compact an F1 gearbox is, having to house similar parts to these.

A nice schematic of a gear box would do great about now. Also the power requirements of the hydraulics and the system pressure and the type of control.

Much of the system seem to be outside of the box for the Ferrari 355.

[747heavy]

sorry it´s not the latest car/gearbox technology, but some photos of an F1 gearbox can be found here

http://www.team-edlinger.com/Racecar/Racecar8.php

this guy put an 3.5 ltr V8 out of the IRL (GM engine) into an hill climb touring car (BMW 320/E30) and combined it with an Xtrac F1 gearbox out of an 2000 Prost F1.

He developed the complete hydraulic and electronic for the gearbox, to get it up and running/shifting again. Including the diff control - RESPECT !!
(he also developed his own ABS controller)
Maybe F1snake should give the guy a call one day.







not 100% related to hydraulics, but perhaps still interesting

http://www.ees-kisssoft.ch/downloads/041.pdf
http://www.cryogenicsuperfinish.com/pdf ... 202005.pdf

some infos about BMW´s SMG 2 gearbox (e.g. hydraulic pressure in actuators 85 bar)
http://www.kinmak.com/downloads/doc/smgmanual.pdf

some other stuff about F1 gearbox

•6 or 7 speed sequential
•Hydraulic actuation
–250bar (3750 psi)
–Clutch-by-wire
–Shift-by-wire

http://www.freescale.com/files/ftf_2010 ... _F0888.pdf

[747heavy]

some infos on automated manual gearboxes for roadcars, including the actuations systems for gearshift and clutch.

http://alexandria.tue.nl/repository/books/615461.pdf

let´s keep in mind, that adding a automated gearshift to an H-pattern gearbox is much more complicated, then adding in to an sequential box.

I remember the first "paddle shift" box in the WRC in the Subaru by Prodrive, which was still a H-pattern box.
They keeped the gearstick, in case the "paddle shift" would fail, which lead to the name "ghost box", as on inboard camera shoots, you would see the gearstick move by itself, when the driver shifted with the paddles.
For the control engineers, this was quite a challenge at the time.



inboard video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq0kEVjRqow

[MadMatt]

In fact it was mendatory in the WRC to still have a normal shifting lever. And it proved to be good because sometimes the paddle shift would fail. Ford were quite used to this. In WRC gearboxes they also have handbrake release which is quite something also !

The electronic inside WRC cars is really amazing.

[ringo]

Wow, we got a lot here. I'm still reading some of it.
It's funny how Virgin racing had so many issues with such a well documented and implemented technology. I guess some of the components were underdeveloped, the supplier may have went overboard, since the aim is to make the gearbox as light and compact as possible.

In summary the gear actuation and selection, clutch actuation and control, and the differential control are the main circuits. Any hydraulic failure could be linked to seals or even sensors. You can imagine what can go wrong with miss-communication between clutch and gear selection.



Funny how we overlook these bits on the current gearboxes. Though the teams have done a good job of sizing the hydraulics.