Mark Webber & Jenson Button over 2010 - the verdict

[Tamburello]

Webber is not quite as good as his points result versus Vettel makes him look. If you add the reliability points to the gap it should 77 points and not 14. This is considerably more than the gap between Hamilton and Button who enjoyed comparable reliability.

There's an interesting analysis of the drivers in 2010 done by Peter Windsor on his website, which discounts the points tally altogether and tries to work how fast each driver has been independent of the car.

His analysis comes to the conclusion that Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton were basically driving at the limit of their respective cars' pace throughout the season.

In the second rank is Webber who was a tenth or so off the ultimate pace of the RB6.

The fourth rank consists of Rosberg and Kubica with Button a further grade back.

You can find this work here: http://www.theracedriver.com/

[ell66]

Webber is not quite as good as his points result versus Vettel makes him look. If you add the reliability points to the gap it should 77 points and not 14. This is considerably more than the gap between Hamilton and Button who enjoyed comparable reliability.

i hope your joking? how did lewis and jenson have comparable reliability? jenson retired in monaco whilst running 11th!
lewis reitred in spain whilst 2nd, hungary whilst 4th and he had gear box issues in japan during the race and qually. poor argument wb.

[vasstech]

Some interesting posts. I personally have to agree that Webber has had a better 2010 campaign than Jenson.

Webber had a lot of pressure (from his own team-mentally) been dubbed as a number 2 driver, altho RBR did a good job of not showing this fully via the media. I suspect they never expected Webber to have a shot of the Drivers Championship at the start of 2010.

Depsite the pressure and Webber having a very quick, capable team mate, he did remarkable to show raw pace and precision driving (except Korea) pretty much to through to Abu Dhabi.

Yet compare this to Jenson and his team mate, Hamilton who's performances/ errors were sometimes questionable, Jenson should have at least matched Hamilton on points- considering the amount of DNA's and mechanical issues Hamilton incurred in 2010.

It appears Jenson sometimes struggles for raw out and out pace but is clever at calling a different strategy, compare this to Webber who appears to have raised his game this year both on performance and strategy.

Lets' hope this years season goes down to the wire again and has a cat thrown amongst the Pigeons.

[mstar]

impossible to compare both as jb was new to mclaren and also the RB was the best car to date. Talent for talent i would say JB is better in equal cars.

[raymondu999]

Coming to 2011, Vettel would have stepped up his game massively with the extra confidence that winning the title would've given him, knowing that he has got his first title done and over with, whilst at the same time he has never been beat over a full season by Mark. Having said that, Webber will start the year with the confidence (after his dominance of Monaco and Spain) that he didn't have in the first 4 races of the year.

JB will have had a whole year to integrate fully with the team, and probably influence the car design to help him gain the rear stability that is so important for his confidence, as well as knowing fully how a McLaren handles, and where all the buttons are, and the general SOP at McLaren. He'll also have worked with his engineers etc for a year, bringing him closer to the team. The Pirellis this year are also slated to maybe suit Button's smooth style as he might keep the tyres in check better? But then again someone mentioned a while back that Jenson's constant-radius driving style actually prolongs the time that a lateral loading is acting on the tyre, whereas Lewis's more "late-apex" style of driving would minimize that, and hence (counterintuitively) Lewis might be better at preserving tyres. Having said that, Lewis does like to be pushing 100% all the time and locking up/sliding, which does eat tyres.

I'm thinking Jenson will be closer to Lewis this year than he was last year, while in fact Webber will not be as close to Vettel as in 2010.

What are your thoughts on these two, who were labelled as the underdogs in their respective teams, to be "blown away" by their teammates early last year?

[Just_a_fan]

The Pirellis this year are also slated to maybe suit Button's smooth style as he might keep the tyres in check better? But then again someone mentioned a while back that Jenson's constant-radius driving style actually prolongs the time that a lateral loading is acting on the tyre, whereas Lewis's more "late-apex" style of driving would minimize that, and hence (counterintuitively) Lewis might be better at preserving tyres. Having said that, Lewis does like to be pushing 100% all the time and locking up/sliding, which does eat tyres.

There are suggestions that the Pirelli front tyres are stronger than the Bridgestones were. This might favour Hamilton as he likes a pointy front end and walks the back in to the corner. However, Button doesn't like an understeery car either - preferring a neutral balance. It will be interesting to see who prefers the new tyres.

Hamilton stated that the Pirellis give better feel but less grip than the Bridgestones. If that's the case then we might see some different drivers come to the fore as they gain confidence in what the tyres are doing by having more feel for them. This might make for some closer racing...

[PlatinumZealot]

Speed is speed. Talent is knowing how to make speed out of what you got. If you can't do that, then you're just not as talented as the other guy. In other words you would expect Lionel Messi to be good at all types of football (scrimage, futsal, tennis ball football) right? That's because a true star always shines. Same reason why Button will not beat Hamilton this year. Just isn't going to happen.

[raymondu999]

That was a very technical post. I can clearly see you're not biased.

[sticky667]

Webber is not quite as good as his points result versus Vettel makes him look. If you add the reliability points to the gap it should 77 points and not 14. This is considerably more than the gap between Hamilton and Button who enjoyed comparable reliability.

i hope your joking? how did lewis and jenson have comparable reliability? jenson retired in monaco whilst running 11th!
lewis reitred in spain whilst 2nd, hungary whilst 4th and he had gear box issues in japan during the race and qually. poor argument wb.

you may need to go back and watch monaco again. jenson went out with a blown engine on the first lap due to the radiator bung left in by the mechanic on the warm up lap.

ringo: take off your hami goggles.

[raymondu999]

ell6's point is that Jenson had bad reliability in low positions while Lewis had bad reliability while he was in strong scoring places.

[sticky667]

in low positions? he was 5th on the grid at monaco yet couldn't complete the first 3 corners, then he was second in spa when the crash kid took him out. otherwise he didn't have any other reliability woes??

[raymondu999]

Wait a minute here. Button started 5th in Monaco, and was 11th by turn 2. AND THEN his engine gave way. He retired by car fault, from 11th. NOT from 5th. In Spa, that was a mistake by Vettel, and not a reliability issue, and cannot be classed as such. Having said that, those were (potentially) 18 points that he lost that day as well.

[sticky667]

well considering the engine was already on the way out, losing those 6 places at the start aren't really justified as him losing places on his own.

[raymondu999]

No it wasn't. He made a bad start. The engine went on the SECOND lap, as he crossed the line to finish the first lap (under safety car). The engine was smoking on the approach to Ste. Devote. The engine didn't go, or blow out. Jenson turned the engine off so that it WOULDN'T overheat and blow.

That isn't speculation, Jenson said that when he was interviewed by the BBC during the race. He also said everything was normal, and he would've been able to continue as per normal if the safety car hadn't come out.

Also, the one in 5th was Lewis. Jenson qualified 8th

[PlatinumZealot]

That was a very technical post. I can clearly see you're not biased.

Thank you.

I try to give the drivers equal billing when I can.