Australian F1 could be axed

[forzasab]

Anyhoo, to the Aussie GP. If they loose it then so what? There are plenty other tracks which are better that are screaming out for a GP. The location of a track is irrelevant and it is the quality of the track that is the important factor.

You just got on the wrong side with an aussie.
So what you say?
Mate pretty much every race here in Australia (since 1985) have been absolute crackers! Albert Park has become a classic street circuit that has built its reputation with some amazing races!
There are now potentially two Austalians that will be competing in the world championship so it makes sense to race in that country IMHO.
I think the race time requirements that B.E. has been asking for over the past few years is ludicrous seeing's though it's a "world championship" not a "european championship" and i wouldnt be surprised if this has affected the potential takings in and around the city.
I personally think that B.E. has been in the job for far too long and is getting greedier and greedier every year.

[Giblet]

Problem is that it's not just his greed. Everyone from motorhome drivers all the way up to team principal like money, and get paid very well to do their job. Of course drivers would race for free, but at the same time they wouldn't be able to afford to.

Nobody wants the tap to shut off, so Bernie now has a responsibility to continue being greedy but just like the financial industry, they appear to be doing it at the expense of the sport and it could implode one day.

[McG]

Maybe New Zealand or Tasmania would take the race if Australia doesn't want it

[andrew]

MrE has every right to charge whatever the hell he likes for venues to host what is effectively his product.

And there you are in error. The championship belongs to the FiA which passed the right for the commercial exploitation to FOM. As a part of that deal limitations are agreed that protect traditional Grands Prix. I believe that Australia meets that criterion.

The FiA is the global lobbyist for motorists and motor sport participants. They should take notice when their constituency is being abused by non appropriate business practice.

CVC is an investment group which has to maximise the return for its investors and MrE is doing an excellent job in doing that. I work in property and see similar scenarios all the time. On one side incredibly unfair, on the other side just someone doing their job.

Turkey was sold the idea of F1 by Bernie, and are now experiencing buyers remorse.

To be blunt, tough! MrE did his job and Turkey, as you say, has the buyers remorse. That is not the fault of MrE but the fault of the race host/Turkish government for not doing their homework properly and realizing there is no local interest.

You just got on the wrong side with an aussie.
So what you say?
Mate pretty much every race here in Australia (since 1985) have been absolute crackers! Albert Park has become a classic street circuit that has built its reputation with some amazing races!
There are now potentially two Austalians that will be competing in the world championship so it makes sense to race in that country IMHO.
I think the race time requirements that B.E. has been asking for over the past few years is ludicrous seeing's though it's a "world championship" not a "european championship" and i wouldnt be surprised if this has affected the potential takings in and around the city.
I personally think that B.E. has been in the job for far too long and is getting greedier and greedier every year.

I’m not saying that there shouldn’t be an Australian GP but to pin the blame on MrE for the race being lost is just plain wrong. MrE has basically said to the Australians court take it or leave it so the ball is in their court. If they loose the GP then it is their choice. As I said, I’m not too worried where a race is, as long as there is good racing.

Even if you dislike MrE, every F1 fan has to agree that he (or someone else doing the same job) is a necessary evil and has done an excellent job in helping to increase F1s popularity and availability. F1 would not be so widely available without a promoter. Heck, F1 in HD wouldn’t be available either!

[andrew]

Of course drivers would race for free...

I truly envy you for believing this! Wish I could.

[megz]

Maybe New Zealand or Tasmania would take the race if Australia doesn't want it

Nowhere in New Zealand to host it. The closest venue to being fit for an F1 event would be the Taupo International Circuit which (as far as I'm aware) doesn't make much money as is - almost certainly doesn't get ANY government assistance AND only makes the requirements fit for lower tier FIA motorsports eg. A1GP which raced there (before it went under).

[Pandamasque]

The location of a track is irrelevant and it is the quality of the track that is the important factor.

This is simply not true at all. By putting a track in the middle of the desert in a country where nobody gives a hair about car racing, you are having the sport racing somwhere where nobody shows up to see the race. This is an unsustainable practice.

Sounds like Austin to me...

[Pieoter]

Mclaren are taking one of the f1 cars for a spin around Mt Panorama.

Possibility for a race there if Melbourne doesn't work out.

[FW17]

OZ GP always has a decent crowd just look at the numbers
2005 - 359,000
2006 - 301,500
2007 - 301,000
2008 - 303,000
2009 - 286,900
2010 - 305,000

It is Melbourne with the temp circuit in the public park which is being a problem. It is not like Singapore that does not a permanent facility. There are quiet a few circuits down under that could have been upgraded to turn a profit.

BE fee for the race has been known all these years when the signed up, the crowd has been the same, so why blame him? I am sure what OZ is paying will still be lesser the Silverstone, who are at least braking even.

I for one still don't understand how it can make a loss of $50 mill, wonder how much they spent then?


MOVE IT TO CALDER PARK RACEWAY

[WhiteBlue]

People with an undifferentiated view say that Bernie and CVC should be allowed unrestricted capitalism in their exploitation of the sport. I don't agree with that. It would be the dumb thing to do. If the world championship is to remain credible one cannot disregard what the Australian GP and it's incredible tradition means to the racing world. If the GP would be kicked out of the calendar for financial reasons it would not be able to survive stand alone as before 1984. F1 has sucked in all top open wheel racing and left all non franchise venues without a chance to attract the stars for non championship races as were common before the monopolization of the concord agreement. If you look at the sixties, the seventies and the eighties you see very respected names showing up in the table of honors both in terms of teams and drivers. You would not get this today.

1984 Roberto Moreno Ralt-Cosworth Calder
1983 Roberto Moreno Ralt-Cosworth Calder
1982 Alain Prost Ralt-Cosworth Calder
1981 Roberto Moreno Ralt-Cosworth Calder
1980 Alan Jones Williams-Cosworth Calder
1979 Johnnie Walker Lola-Chevrolet Wanneroo
1978 Graham McRae McRae-Chevrolet Sandown Raceway
1977 Warwick Brown Lola-Chevrolet Oran Park Raceway
1976 John Goss Matich-Holden Sandown Raceway
1975 Max Stewart Lola-Chevrolet Surfers Paradise
1974 Max Stewart Lola-Chevrolet Oran Park Raceway
1973 Graham McRae McRae-Chevrolet Sandown Raceway
1972 Graham McRae Leda-Chevrolet Sandown Raceway
1971 Frank Matich Matich A50-Repco Holden Warwick Farm
1970 Frank Matich McLaren-Holden Warwick Farm
1969 Chris Amon Ferrari Lakeside
1968 Jim Clark Lotus-Cosworth Sandown Raceway
1967 Jackie Stewart BRM Warwick Farm
1966 Graham Hill BRM Lakeside
1965 Bruce McLaren Cooper-Climax Longford
1964 Jack Brabham Brabham-Climax Sandown Raceway
1963 Jack Brabham Brabham-Climax Warwick Farm
1962 Bruce McLaren Cooper-Climax Caversham

It is time someone steps on the greedy fingers of the old bugger before he ruins all of the good things in GP racing. Racing is not about making more and more money or making the drives more and more expensive until the whole grid consists of pay drivers. There is intrinsic value beyond money in racing and the real fans know it. The FiA should care enough to know as well.

[FW17]

Melbourne has been given a deal similar to most European venues if not better, it is up to the GP organizers to make it profitable. While most other venues are permanent, Melbourne is in a public park which remains shut for 3 months when the circuit is furnished and de-furnished. Why sink money into something every year when a permanent facility could have been built or upgraded?

You can compare 2 state funded GP's Canada and Australia, one is happy with benefits to Montreal the other cribs, the diff is obvious, one has to spend more than the other on building a track every year.

Bad business model from the OZ GP organizers is not BE's fault in this case

[Mysticf1]

OZ GP always has a decent crowd just look at the numbers
2005 - 359,000
2006 - 301,500
2007 - 301,000
2008 - 303,000
2009 - 286,900
2010 - 305,000




MOVE IT TO CALDER PARK RACEWAY

Those attendance figures are 4 day combined, still a decent turn out every year.

Calder park isnt fit for cams level motorsport let alone formula one, and not a great track anyway.

sometime last year a local transport business owner made headlines by proposing to build a permanent circuit, i haven't heard anything else since tho.

This whole business started when the mayor of Melbourne made statements about the race costing too much, he has no authority in the matter.

[Lurk]

As per your theory every race should be subsidized like Monza and Monte Carlo

Monaco had privileges. They never pay a cent to host F1 Grand Prix when the others pay an average fees of $31 millions ($40 millions for Barhain this year) and reverse all of their advertising revenues directly to FOM.


The only thing promoters can do to make more money is to attract more spectators, reduce their charges (so infrastructure/track quality, spectator reception, etc) or to rise ticket price.
With nearly 300 000 people on 3 days, I'm not sure Melbourne could accept more visitors... So they can only rise their ticket price or reduce their charges.

@WilliamsF1: Reducing charges is obviously what Canadian GP did. They were in trouble not so long ago. When they came back, track turned into pieces. Do you ever saw that in Albert Park? Maybe they can review their business model, but it would not be sufficient as long as Bernie will be in charge.


Bernie does not profit to F1 anymore, F1 profits to Bernie and CVC.


Even ACO (Le Mans promoter) don't want Formula one because all F1 tracks loose a lot of money.
ps: A le Mans ticket is between 20 and 120€ ($28-165) for the whole week, free for kids less than 15 year old. And they are making profits.
How much for an F1 ticket...

[donskar]

The location of a track is irrelevant and it is the quality of the track that is the important factor.

This is simply not true at all. By putting a track in the middle of the desert in a country where nobody gives a hair about car racing, you are having the sport racing somwhere where nobody shows up to see the race. This is an unsustainable practice.

Sounds like Austin to me...

If you mean to say that Austin is in "the middle of the desert" OR "in a country where nobody gives a hair about car racing," then you are dead wrong.

[WhiteBlue]

This is simply not true at all. By putting a track in the middle of the desert in a country where nobody gives a hair about car racing, you are having the sport racing somwhere where nobody shows up to see the race. This is an unsustainable practice.

Sounds like Austin to me...

If you mean to say that Austin is in "the middle of the desert" OR "in a country where nobody gives a hair about car racing," then you are dead wrong.

+1

Austin probably has the most elaborate commercial scheme ever seen in F1. If their economic impact figure stand up to scrutiny they start the GP with $250m tax payer sponsorship assured over ten years. Few other race tracks had such meticulous venue selection. They are ticking all the boxes in terms of air and ground traffic connections, hotel capacities and socioeconomic data fit.

If the Australian GP had been prepared by the Austin team it would probably run near Sydney airport in a dedicated facility. As it stands such criteria were not developed at the time of the AUS GP inauguration and it would be expensive to rectify these short comings now.