Red Bull Racing sign deal with Infiniti

[raymondu999]

Sauber is still Sauber-Ferrari. Besides, Petronas are with Mercedes now. Petronas were just a title sponsor, not an engine rebrand.

[gridwalker]

I am not talking about Sauber-Ferrari in their current incarnation : in Sauber's pre-BMW existence, their Ferrari engine supply WAS rebranded "Petronas".

The Petronas engine programme was started in 1997 and all of the Ferrari engines that they used until the BMW takeover were all branded "Petronas" (although the commentators frequently referred to them as Ferraris).

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/32450/1/sa ... ngine.html



I think that this is one of the more relevant examples of rebadging, as it is an example of one internationally recognised brand being promoted through the rebranding of an existing (championship capable) powerplant purely for promotional purposes : in the case of Tag, Ford and Oldsmobile, they were simply putting their name on a product that their R&D money had funded.

[raymondu999]

I stand corrected

[gridwalker]

For details of all the Petronas engine series, see http://www.allf1.info/engines/petronas.php

I am curious about how successful the project was : assessing the benefit from this kind of marketing programme is notoriously difficult.

I will be keeping a close eye on Infiniti sales over the course of the Red Bull deal, to see if there is any noticeable upswing.

[FW17]

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[Raptor22]

I am not talking about Sauber-Ferrari in their current incarnation : in Sauber's pre-BMW existence, their Ferrari engine supply WAS rebranded "Petronas".

The Petronas engine programme was started in 1997 and all of the Ferrari engines that they used until the BMW takeover were all branded "Petronas" (although the commentators frequently referred to them as Ferraris).

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/32450/1/sa ... ngine.html



I think that this is one of the more relevant examples of rebadging, as it is an example of one internationally recognised brand being promoted through the rebranding of an existing (championship capable) powerplant purely for promotional purposes : in the case of Tag, Ford and Oldsmobile, they were simply putting their name on a product that their R&D money had funded.

Petronas Engine "program" is really a misnomer since there was no real engine program at all. It was a simple rebadging exercise. Petronas didnot use their own product in those engines either, they used Shell.
it is exactly the same thing with the Infinity and Renault engines. Nothng changes, only the decals (very important) and the badging on the engine.

[lolzi]

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What series is that car from? It looks a bit like an old indycar, is it a lower category?

[djos]

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What series is that car from? It looks a bit like an old indycar, is it a lower category?

Looks like an Indy Lights Car

[gridwalker]

Petronas Engine "program" is really a misnomer

Hence my use of "Programme", rather than "Program" : I have always seen the suffix "mme" to be suggestive of performance (hence its use in Television Programme and Theatre Programme) whilst the single M is suggestive of practical application (computer program, space program) ... I was trying to imply that both the Petronas and Infiniti badges are just for show as a bit of theatrical suggestion for marketing purposes.

[Richard]

Hence my use of "Programme", rather than "Program"

That's just a color/colour thing.

It happens that computer geeks from Silicon Valley and Seattle talk about "program", so UK usage has been corrupted to use "program" for computer code. Meanwhile "programme" is used for all other uses including theatre pamphlets as well as operational sequences and actions, ie "construction programme", “television programme” (ie the actual show), or "R&D programme"

The American usage tends to use "programme" for a glossy pamphlets purchased at the theatre only, and "program" for all other uses.

[Goran2812]

mod moved this post from the original thread, makes no sense now... tnx

[ben_watkins]

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned this yet : http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 409120.stm

Red Bull's Renault engines will be renamed Infiniti this season in a move that will boost the world champion team's budget by at least £7m.

Infiniti - the premium brand of Japan's Nissan, part-owned by Renault - is using F1 to boost its global profile.

The engines will be the same, branding aside, but the plan means Red Bull will get their engines for free.

I guess that we're going to have to change the name of the thread now ...

Do they have to change their entry to the FIA to reflect the name change of their engine? Also how will the Lotus team respond to this? Will they also have their engines changed to Infiniti brand, cause I'm sure they too could use a rebate of £7m quid!

[gridwalker]

I doubt that Infiniti will bankroll Team Lotus as well : I think that the Renault/Nissan execs bought in to the idea of using the current WDC and WCC holders to promote one of their lesser known brands (it was a new one for me) ... Team Lotus just don't have the same marketing value as the big bad Bulls

[horse]

Yeah, surely the whole point of this is to bring Red Bull into parity with the other top teams, in the fact that they don't have to pay for their engines? So in effect, Red Bull have been operating at a 8 million quid deficit to McLaren, Ferarri by being an engine customer.

To me this is also interesting from the politics side as Renault engines now effectively have two works teams, Lotus Renault and Red Bull. I wonder if Lotus Renault are worried about having to stump up for their engines any time soon?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

All dealings for resource's are made without factoring in engine costs.

If engine cost were added, Mercedes Renault and Ferrari would be the leading spenders in F1, somthing Markko is very quick to tell the media.
But, the reality is Teams like Mercedes and Renault spend less on their teams than Red Bull does.
Yes Red Bull wont have to pay for the engines, but that wont always be the case. Mclaren also, will soon be paying for engines.

Lotus Renault are the defacto works team. They will not be worried as I believe Genii capita own the engine department too.