McLaren 2011

[Hangaku]

Could they accurately test flex in a wind tunnel with a scale model though?

They probably have calculations to convert air measurements to 100% scale, but something as complex as flexing would be difficult to do on a scale model I'd have thought?

Indeed. I would suspect that scaling force with scale isn't as simple as a linear calculation. For example, a 4mm piece of carbon fibre (I would suspect) isn't twice as strong as a 2mm piece of carbon fibre.

[segedunum]

There's certain things you can't test in a wind tunnel, such as what effect yaw has and the effect of the front tyres at different angles. It alters the aerodynamics in sometimes not-so-subtle ways. In addition, you wouldn't want to test anything other than a full-scale model for this kind of thing.

[volarchico]

There's certain things you can't test in a wind tunnel, such as what effect yaw has and the effect of the front tyres at different angles. It alters the aerodynamics in sometimes not-so-subtle ways. In addition, you wouldn't want to test anything other than a full-scale model for this kind of thing.

Why couldn't you test yaw? They do with aircraft... Does it have something to do with the rolling floor?

[volarchico]

The channel itself is enough to stabilise the air. As such, those winglets are basically "free downforce." I won't be surprised to see bigger winglets and maybe even more winglets in the future.

At risk of getting back into the debate about what creates downforce, wouldn't a large amount of downforce inducing appendages attached in the u-channel defeat the purpose of allowing clean air to the back of the vehicle? All these wings would be turning the air up and away from the beam-wing, etc.

[speedsense]

There's certain things you can't test in a wind tunnel, such as what effect yaw has and the effect of the front tyres at different angles. It alters the aerodynamics in sometimes not-so-subtle ways. In addition, you wouldn't want to test anything other than a full-scale model for this kind of thing.

According to Willem Toet, 70% of the wind tunnel testing in F1 is done in yaw angles rather than straight ahead, with the tires "bent" and the fronts turned....From the recent video at Peter Windsor's PT site..

[marcush.]

put he also pointed out that he had to learn that Ferrari did nothing with yaw and steering input when they really were kings ...which surprised him totally...
you certainly can get into a maelstrom of information which is leading you up blind alleys...
I remember years ago Renault was king in Aero development and they were so sure about their correlation they concentrated on microscope development...we know that at some point they complete lost the plot and it took them years to get back on track...

[speedsense]

put he also pointed out that he had to learn that Ferrari did nothing with yaw and steering input when they really were kings ...which surprised him totally...
you certainly can get into a maelstrom of information which is leading you up blind alleys...
I remember years ago Renault was king in Aero development and they were so sure about their correlation they concentrated on microscope development...we know that at some point they complete lost the plot and it took them years to get back on track...

Yep, he did point out that the straightline speed element paid off to a championship rather that all the yaw data collection. Two sides to every coin...

Though it was interesting that Willem noted how "tuned" Mclaren's aero dept. is, in their organization of data between CFD, Data logging and Wind Tunnel. Which is one major reason they react so quickly to competitive engineering progressions...

[BreezyRacer]

Though it was interesting that Willem noted how "tuned" Mclaren's aero dept. is, in their organization of data between CFD, Data logging and Wind Tunnel. Which is one major reason they react so quickly to competitive engineering progressions...

They've fully missed it for 50% of the time since Newey left so you have to wonder about that ..

[speedsense]

Though it was interesting that Willem noted how "tuned" Mclaren's aero dept. is, in their organization of data between CFD, Data logging and Wind Tunnel. Which is one major reason they react so quickly to competitive engineering progressions...

They've fully missed it for 50% of the time since Newey left so you have to wonder about that ..

Well, for instance, last year it wasn't aero that dropped them from the lead in the WDC and was aero that put them in the hunt and kept them in the hunt... so the percentage doesn't exactly tell the "aero" story.

Same could be said about the following statistic, where mechanicals intervene...

... that Mclaren's finishing position in the championship has been improved since Newey left, than when he was with them. Newey's average has dropped since he left Mclaren. though speaks well for the aero dept. at Mclaren.

[BreezyRacer]

Well I can tell you for sure that if I had to pen a design without being able to redesign it I would NEVER hire McLaren to do it .. they have had a lot of aero "inconsistencies" over the few years. Take away the Fduct, which was an outright cheat, and you have nothing. I will say they did do some nice DD Diffuser stuff past midseason in 09 though .. of course with such a fat ass like they had on that car they had plenty of wake energy to work with

[Richard]

How much of this page relates to the MP4-26?

Oh ... none

Team talk this way please keep moving along viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9605

[ringo]

I can't help but focus on how abruptly the bodywork on the MP4-26 ends with sudden angular edges and then exposed carbon fibre and that square hole. What effect would this arrangement have on airflow around it and wouldn't a more aerodynamic solution be preferable??

I think there may be an engine cover that has a smaller hole, similar to the ferrari engine cover slit.
They are probably just continuing to use this one for the sake of hiding the new engine cover.

[Richard]

Also the larger cover may be for hot weather tracks, but they've had to close the hole during the test to stop the innards getting too cold

[Lurk]

Take away the Fduct, which was an outright cheat, and you have nothing

You could say the same for RBR or Ferrari.

McLaren have an original idea and spent some time on it. They struggle with their EDB and don't have a correct flexible wing, which is an outright cheat.

[segedunum]

According to Willem Toet, 70% of the wind tunnel testing in F1 is done in yaw angles rather than straight ahead, with the tires "bent" and the fronts turned....From the recent video at Peter Windsor's PT site..

Indeed. I watched that and found it interesting. It's long been known that yaw angles, steering lock applied and other things that create airflow differences have caused issues but I was surprised how little you can still really do in a tunnel or via CFD. I hate to repeat myself, but that's why I was so unsure when I saw their sidepods. Lots more variables.

Willem seemed to be non-plussed by the concept. He sidestepped it by saying that you'd go a long way before you criticised McLaren's aerodynamics. It wasn't exactly the biggest ringing endorsement I've ever heard.