Graphite in the oil

[strad]

HAHAHAHA
That's how ya see it huh?
You need to go to a few more drag races.
If it were like you say, Nobody would make it to the finals.
Most times, even when they blow up they do not wreck.
Most times the engine can be rebuilt between rounds.
and this has strayed way off topic.
I still have friends in drag racing and I will see what I can find out about the graphite.
People who know nothing about drag racing should avoid pontificating on that they know nothing about.
BTW
Yes they have a sheild for the diff, but I have never needed it going back to '65 and haven't seen a modern T/F or F/C rear end blow in a dangerous manner anytime in recent memory.
I mean I'm sure there is a case somewhere but it's waaaaaaay uncommon.
I'd bet a Competition class dragster hits the gear harder. Let alone a Pro Stock car.

[riff_raff]

I repeat..when was the last time you saw a Funny Car or Top Fueler blow up it's differential? You haven't!

strad,

I must admit you're correct, I've never actually seen a top fuel or funny car "blow up" a differential. But maybe that's because they usually don't run differentials....they run spools.

Most NHRA top fuel and funny cars run either Strange or Chrisman rear ends. A friend of mine does the machine work on the billet center housings for Strange 12" top fuel and funny car rear ends. I've seen the ring and pinions from these rear ends after a couple runs, and they're destroyed. Even the brand new R&P gear sets I saw (from U.S. Gear) were of questionable quality. The gear flank surface finish was poor (they did not appear even to have been finish ground), they did not appear to have been shot peened, and they did not appear to have been properly deburred. All of these processes are critical for high performance carburized gears.

I design aircraft gearboxes for a living, so I know a bit about gear design. I ran a quick analysis on one of his 12" hypoid R&P gearsets. By my analysis, the gear tooth contacts were always operating in boundary conditions and subject to severe scoring. Thus, there is no oil additive known to mankind that would help much.

riff_raff

[strad]

Yeah they run spools. But they still run a gear set. And I've never seen a Chrisman rear end fail.
I can tell you horror stories of poor quality or finish on aftermarket parts to be sure, and not just in drag racing parts either.

[riff_raff]

strad,

Consider this: the difference in efficiency between a good hypoid gearset and a bad one is about 2% or 3% of transmitted power. Since the rear end gearset transmits 100% of the power the rear tires need, a 2% loss of 5000HP amounts to 100HP.

And consider this: A Chrisman rear end costs almost $20K, and they last maybe 5 runs between rebuilds. A properly engineered rear end would cost about $30K, but would last at least 5 times longer between rebuilds. Not to mention the time and labor saved during a race weekend from not having to swap out rear ends.

As for rear end failures, a woman was killed last Feb. at a NHRA drag race in Arizona when a rear axel broke at the spool and the tire/wheel/axel went into the crowd. Don't know if it was a Chrisman unit.

riff_raff

[strad]

I don't know why you want to turn it into an arguement.
Yeah...axles break.
Never had to rebuild one on a race weekend so I don't know where you're coming from on that or the cost.

[Scuderia Nuvolari]

Top fuels and funnys are normally rebuilt after each run.
alcies usually last a lot longer.
It's been a while back but I never heard of them using grafite.
When they blow, it usually sounds and looks like a bomb went off.
i have seen funny cars blow their bodies all over the track and the crowd.
differentials are not exempt from this carnage.
grafite? fifty weight pennzoil or many other specialty oils with heavy weight.
drag racing ain't rocket sience, F-1 IS.
But if you have the balls to literally lay your balls on top of a top fuel rear end (that is what you sit on) and go 300+ mph in 4 seconds WOW

[Formula None]

I don't know why you want to turn it into an arguement.
Yeah...axles break.
Never had to rebuild one on a race weekend so I don't know where you're coming from on that or the cost.

It's ridiculous that you find riff-raff argumentative. He's one of the few cool-headed sources of real world experience we have on this forum.

[strad]

Maybe it's just his style.
Scuderia Nuvolari has it close but Top Fuelers haven't sat on top of the rear end for ages. Common misconception the Big Daddy invented the rear engine dragster..close but not exactly.
I've been involved on some level with drag racing since I first ran a stock TR3 at the old Beeline in Phoenix back in 64-65, til 1980.
I have never seen anyone in T/F run graphite in their oil, and I was close to a few top names. However, that doesn't mean they don't or that something I'm unaware of hasn't changed, and I said I would inquire of those old friends when I get a chance.
my last car

[Scuderia Nuvolari]

someone is paying attention, good.
You must know big daddy.
I had the oportunity to talk with him about a half dozen times.
He always seems to make time for his fans.
his museum is in Ocala, Florida
most of his swamp rats are there
one of tommy ivo's cars is there

Is that you with the white helment?

[Scuderia Nuvolari]

HAHAHAHA
That's how ya see it huh?
You need to go to a few more drag races.
If it were like you say, Nobody would make it to the finals.
Most times, even when they blow up they do not wreck.
Most times the engine can be rebuilt between rounds.
and this has strayed way off topic.
I still have friends in drag racing and I will see what I can find out about the graphite.
People who know nothing about drag racing should avoid pontificating on that they know nothing about.
BTW
Yes they have a sheild for the diff, but I have never needed it going back to '65 and haven't seen a modern T/F or F/C rear end blow in a dangerous manner anytime in recent memory.
I mean I'm sure there is a case somewhere but it's waaaaaaay uncommon.
I'd bet a Competition class dragster hits the gear harder. Let alone a Pro Stock car.

so you still have friends?
what is the outcome swammie, What do they say?

[strad]

Stones said, "Sometimes ya get what ya need"
I'm watching the TV and this show comes on, that may well be the show that Shrek saw that started this.
I captured it and edited out this bit on the clutch operation of a Top Fuel car AND at the end a bit on why they add graphite to the rear end oil.
click photo

[Scuderia Nuvolari]

you never owned that car!
I keep forgeting that even in this forum there are lurkers

[Ciro Pabón]

Even in this forum?

I might not be a friend of Strad, but I want to.

Anway, I'm glad you two are here. Quando corre Nuvolari mette paura…

[xpensive]

And I wanna be your friend Ciro.

As a tribologist, I would like to seize this opportunity to try and de-romanticize lubricants a as a whole by saying that there are only a simple few characteristics that matters in a lubricant;

- Viscosity. Obviously, but even water has one you know.
- Viscosity index, how much viscosity changes with temperature.
- Oxidation rate, how quick the --- loses its properties and at what temperature.

Thet's about it gentlemen, but then you can add a bit of hocus-pocus additives such as EP, anti-foam, anti-flame, anti-water, anti-diesel (in case of cavitation) and anti-whatever.

[strad]

you never owned that car!
I keep forgeting that even in this forum there are lurkers

I not only owned that car, It took the 1980 division 6 championship.
After winning in Seattle...I'm in the Mickey Mouse (my lucky) tee shirt