Adrian Newey rejected Ferrari bid

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Re: Adrian Newey rejected Ferrari bid

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xpensive wrote:Perhaps the wrong thread for this JET, but I cannot see Daimler walking away from F1 without outright success, it most definately won't come with this preposterous set-up of fat Norb, RB, MS and Britney Spears, but perhaps in another shape.

How about Newey given free reign setting up his shop in Germany?
I can not imagine ANY German team giving anyone free reign. Autocracy is in their DNA.

RBR gave Newey the chance to organize the team the way he wanted and do the job the way he likes and he delivered.

He is also paid well enough to not be so thrilled by additional 1 or 2 mln ($, euros, pounds... whatever). If you are 50+, and you are one of the best F1 designers of all time, there is more to get from work than just a money.

segedunum
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Re: Adrian Newey rejected Ferrari bid

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JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:Newey had a thing for making Merc's V10 go POP, somthing to do with cooling and packaging of his rear-ends.
To be honest, I think this view of Newey is a little overrated and put about by people a little scared of what he is asking. When you hear him speak he is acutely aware of the line of sacrificing peformance for some reliability, but he expects there to eventually be a payoff as hard work is put in and things are understood. Now that he's at Red Bull and has free reign his cars have certainly had more than their fair share of suspicious engine related issues, but by and large they seem to have got on top of things as time has gone on. Other teams might have brilliant reliability, but I'm sure they would love to be where Red Bull are.

He's long had run-ins with other engineers and engine manufacturers as they complain to him about cooling issues and drag as a result of the downforce he finds. His standard response seem to be to ask everyone else what they're doing and to ask engine manufacturers what they're doing about horsepower when they complain about drag.

At Williams and McLaren I think other engineers simply got scared off with what he was asking. The MP4/18 is a well known classic, but after Ferrari and 2002 McLaren simply had to do something. Yes, the 18 might well have involved some initial pain but if the 19B was anything to go by that pain might have paid off far earlier and the 2004 season might no have panned out the way it did.
I remember Haug and Ilien saying the engines were doing GP distances +100kms on the dyno...
Doesn't tell us much. Anything will work well when on a dyno.
...as it seems Ferrari are the most reliable team over the last decade.
Clearly they don't think that's enough. I couldn't see him fitting in at Maranello though. The politics would be something that would give him a headache.

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Re: Adrian Newey rejected Ferrari bid

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noname wrote:RBR gave Newey the chance to organize the team the way he wanted and do the job the way he likes and he delivered.
I think we need to be fair to the RBR team as a whole and recognise that people like Peter Promodrou on the aerodynamics side and Rob 'Mass Damper' Marshall have been really important. I'm sure they've had some offers. Many teams will also want to know the phone number of their head of composites as well. :D

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Re: Adrian Newey rejected Ferrari bid

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noname wrote:I can not imagine ANY German team giving anyone free reign. Autocracy is in their DNA.
That's the way Toyota and Honda tried to do it as well. We'll see what happens when Bob Bell gets in there.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Adrian Newey rejected Ferrari bid

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I was told, by an ex-F1 engineer friend, that when Red Bull were looking at their engine supplier, Newey pushed for the Renault lump because it had slightly lower cooling requirements ('better heat rejection' is the term I think).

The current cars are evidence of this strategy...
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

segedunum
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Re: Adrian Newey rejected Ferrari bid

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That myth gets bandied around rather a lot, but it's just that - a myth. All the homologated engines are the same size and made within the same parameters. None of the engine manufacturers are silly. The only way in which you can get less heat produced is by having a less powerful engine, something Red Bull have been keen to trade in.

Renault were chosen because they were known to Newey and were the least worst option. They weren't going to continue using Ferrari engines where they were intending to compete with Ferrari. I somehow doubt Ferrari would have given them engine parity. McLaren's Mercedes veto was in full effect at the time as well.

EDIT: Off-topic but semi-related, and done to death a bit.......
Last edited by segedunum on 24 Mar 2011, 19:38, edited 1 time in total.

marcush.
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Re: Adrian Newey rejected Ferrari bid

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maybe them are not idiots ,but they are not all the same either .so why should not one manufacturer have a little more expertise in heat transfer or material treatments OR have put his design tasks valued in a different proportion?
Mind you ferrari ran into trouble at the begiining of last year as their engine was hitting a design constraint when others did not.

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Re: Adrian Newey rejected Ferrari bid

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xpensive wrote:Question is who's planning to be in F1 post-2013? At the moment I would not hazard a guess on anyone, but RBR-Volkswagen comes across as a likely prospect.
If I was at any other team the prospect of a Newey designed Red Bull and a four banger Volkswagen turbo (that no on else wants to do, incidentally) would make me sick with dread. I would offer Newey a salary well in excess of anything Michael Schumacher ever got and tell him he could design a Mars spaceship just to stop that from happening. Not that I'm Machiavellian, but I'd start giving Adrian a little bit more 'protection'. There's a lot at stake and the 'drinks company' jibes are not even the point on the iceberg.

You can't even count on catching up with Red Bull in 2013 with new regulations either. You would usually expect a team that is ahead and winning to be very hesitant about new regulations that would open doors for those behind, but I don't think Newey and the RB people see it that way. They just see it as a fun challenge and an opportunity to gain even more time.

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Re: Adrian Newey rejected Ferrari bid

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segedunum wrote:I think we need to be fair to the RBR team as a whole and recognise that people like Peter Promodrou on the aerodynamics side and Rob 'Mass Damper' Marshall have been really important. I'm sure they've had some offers. Many teams will also want to know the phone number of their head of composites as well. :D
I would not ever say RBR is all about Newey. I think his ability to work with the ones like Promodrou or Marshall (and there are probably a few more individuals within the team) is one of his biggest assets.

I bet (ok, I guess) he understands very well some people need quite a lot of space to deliver and he can give it to them, and at the same time keep the whole team moving in the right directions.

He just got (and is using it) kind of knowledge certain Patrick is so afraid of... ;-)

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Adrian Newey rejected Ferrari bid

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segedunum wrote:
JohnsonsEvilTwin wrote:Newey had a thing for making Merc's V10 go POP, somthing to do with cooling and packaging of his rear-ends.
To be honest, I think this view of Newey is a little overrated and put about by people a little scared of what he is asking.......

.....At Williams and McLaren I think other engineers simply got scared off with what he was asking. The MP4/18 is a well known classic.....Yes, the 18 might well have involved some initial pain but if the 19B was anything to go by that pain might have paid off far earlier and the 2004 season might no have panned out the way it did.
But the fact is it did, and led to Newey no longer being at Mclaren. Mercedes and Ilmor were up for a challenge, and when an engine is designed to certain parameters but is pushed beyond those limits it inevitably goes bang.
Mclaren and Mercedes both benefited greatly from Newey, so it not a dis. Just the way Newey works as you rightly say, he pushes the limits.
More could have been done.
David Purley

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Re: Adrian Newey rejected Ferrari bid

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Well, they didn't blow up in 1998, 1999 or even 2000 very much.

I think it was Steve Matchett who blamed their problems in those years to the distraction of their much vaunted technology centre and personnel changes at Ilmor. The problems they repeatedly had from 2001 through to 2006, and in 2006 Newey wasn't even there (and with that car they simply bolted on the Bridgestone tyres for 2007 and found themselves at the front), are a bit much to be pinning on one person I feel. That might well also have contributed to Mercedes's eventual and apparent disillusionment with McLaren.

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mep
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Re: Adrian Newey rejected Ferrari bid

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segedunum wrote:Well, they didn't blow up in 1998, 1999 or even 2000 very much.
Oooh they did.
But it wasn't all just engine problems they had many other reliability issues.
Anyway it's not Newey alone who has to be blamed for that. It's the whole McLaren team. Sometimes they really made some stupid moves.

ESPImperium wrote:Newey was paid £3m last year as a base pay, and has a 66% bonus clause for Drivers title and Constructors title, thus earning him £7m pay last year, altho Red Bulls bonuses are still to be announced for 2010.


In my opinion 3 Million is not very much for a guy like Adrian Newey. How much does a good driver get? With Newey you will likely get a top car which is much more important than having the best driver. I think Newey sells himself to cheap. Also I would not hope on this 66% bonuses because in the end it’s not up to him if they really win the championship. What can Newey do when the drivers/team managers are to stupid to win every race first and second. Last year it was really just up to stupidity that they didn’t win every race.
Quite ironical.

Just_a_fan
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Re: Adrian Newey rejected Ferrari bid

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segedunum wrote:That myth gets bandied around rather a lot, but it's just that - a myth.
Do I believe you or an F1 engineer of long standing? Hmmm, let me think about that one...
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

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Ciro Pabón
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Re: Adrian Newey rejected Ferrari bid

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Well, maybe the operative word is slightly, as in slightly better cooling.
Ciro

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Re: Adrian Newey rejected Ferrari bid

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Just_a_fan wrote:
segedunum wrote:That myth gets bandied around rather a lot, but it's just that - a myth.
Do I believe you or an F1 engineer of long standing? Hmmm, let me think about that one...
I'm not particularly interested in whether you think I'm a F1 engineer nor why you chose to throw that off-shoot into this thread. You do come out with some bizarre stuff. However, the evidence is out there regarding this whether you choose to believe it or not, and for many it's simply a bridge too far for them.........

Yep, an engine with less power will run slightly cooler...... Not rocket science. It all points in one direction.