Red Bull KERS strategy

[feynman]

Not convinced one way or the other, yet. The paddock sewing-circle doesn't have a great track record at second guessing what Red Bull engineers get up to in qualifying.

I don't quite get why any of the current 'not-a-KERS' theories mean Seb or Mark couldn't use it on either of their q3 laps. Wished I'd paid more attention to how and when they deployed KERS during Free Practice.

Jacked-up minimum weights and (virtually ballast-less) fixed weight distributions make it hard to see much benefit outside of being able to use small batteries that trickle charge instead of the big ones that need to recharge in a few corners, and get real hot in the process. You still have generators, controllers and motors.

If it is just a battery and motor, no recharge whatsoever ... I dunno that could get risky on restarts* and out of track position/pit-stop periods. Maybe they genuinely don't want the cooling issues (it is Newey), or balance issues in the braking zone, especially with all the off-throttle monkey business they get up to at present.

Completely academic for now, they've got more than enough spare speed to keep themselves out of trouble (well Vettel), but if they do ever have to get past someone in the last race, or other teams figure out v2.0 exhausts, things could get a little sticky for them.

Either way, if it is actually only start-line, then a glorious final two-fingers up to the failed Mosley regime, you gotta love it, engineers making yet more monkeys out of rule-makers, a Kinetic Energy Recovery System that doesn't recover any kinetic energy. Yessssss.


* Yes I know the DRS wont apply right after a SC, and I know Red Bulls get on the power like nobodies business and have traction galore on restarts, but if someone is right-behind burning KERS full-tilt before the start-finish line, they may just be able to keep it close enough to put Red Bull in trouble when DRS zone does re-apply.

[callsigncharlie]

Just read the article on Autosport about the possibility that Red Bull are using start-only KERS? Horner is deliberately being quiet about what the facts are, just for creating a media frenzy?

What would the benefits be of lugging a battery around for the entire race if you're only going to use it on the first corner? Surely tire management etc are going to play a much bigger role than who gets to the corner first?

[andrew]

I think it works by the Red Bulls having to lug around a smaller KERS unit. The rest of the weight is made up by ballast which can be used to improve the weight distribution.

[raymondu999]

This is already talked about in the RB7 thread. Maybe the two conversational threads should be merged

[raymondu999]

I was thinking actually and I wonder if it's used as kind of the overrun system they had last year. I'm not sure how that would work though.

[callsigncharlie]

Sorry didnt see it, there it is:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=9380&start=690

[myurr]

Reading the Autosport article I am left wondering if gear ratio's is the explanation. Being able to use the DRS in qualifying means they'll get up to their chosen top speed without KERS help, whilst in the race they'll use KERS to get close to that same top speed. This will compromise them when overtaking and being able to use both KERS and DRS, but means they'll have a more optimal gear ratio for the rest of the race.

[callsigncharlie]

...you gotta love it, engineers making yet more monkeys out of rule-makers, a Kinetic Energy Recovery System that doesn't recover any kinetic energy.

Brilliant!

[i70q7m7ghw]

If it is just a battery and motor, no recharge whatsoever ... I dunno that could get risky on restarts* and out of track position/pit-stop periods. Maybe they genuinely don't want the cooling issues (it is Newey), or balance issues in the braking zone, especially with all the off-throttle monkey business they get up to at present.

Completely academic for now, they've got more than enough spare speed to keep themselves out of trouble (well Vettel), but if they do ever have to get past someone in the last race, or other teams figure out v2.0 exhausts, things could get a little sticky for them.

Either way, if it is actually only start-line, then a glorious final two-fingers up to the failed Mosley regime, you gotta love it, engineers making yet more monkeys out of rule-makers, a Kinetic Energy Recovery System that doesn't recover any kinetic energy. Yessssss.

If it doesn't recharge isn't that illegal? It's not KERS, it's just 'launch control' surely?

[raymondu999]

I don't think that would be the answer, given that most of the time KERS is used to supplant acceleration and not top speed

[King Six]

That would be odd if there aren't already rules stating how the battery for KERS can be charged, stating that they can only be charged via braking energy being recovered, hence KERS. If the loophole like that exists, I can see the FIA acting prompt on it as it makes a mockery of it all really.

[bosanac1]

The F1 Times: Horner almost confirms start-only KERS: "Our system is not the same as others' but it's at its most beneficial at the start." #f1


this doesn't make sense

it sounds like red bull is not confident in its KERS system just like Williams were having issues at Barcelona

why would they risk having such system if say tomorrow there is safety car?

[myurr]

I don't think that would be the answer, given that most of the time KERS is used to supplant acceleration and not top speed

Better acceleration out of the corners would lead to higher top speed down the straight if everything else were equal, at least until terminal velocity is reached. By setting things up for a slower top speed they can use a shorter gear ratio and so get better acceleration up to their top speed using KERS and engine power. Hence cars being in trouble if KERS breaks and they don't have the option to use the DRS as they won't necessarily be able to get the revs high enough in 7th to get into the power band of the engine and get up to their top speed.

It sounds like it's just a start only system though, which sounds puzzling to me. Maybe its as simple as they have reliability worries so went with a simpler system?

[mep]

Guys the way the teams use KERS it does not affect the top speed at all. You just reach the speed faster (improved acceleration).

[Hangaku]

Guys the way the teams use KERS it does not affect the top speed at all. You just reach the speed faster (improved acceleration).

Not so. Assuming the car doesn't reach maximum speed on the longest straight, if the entry to the straight is faster, then the maximum speed reached will also be higher.