Recent performances of Felipe Massa

[Shrieker]

It was pretty obvious Massa immediately slowed down to let Alonso past once he was up on his tail; no discussion in there. I think Massa didn't really quite adapt to the new aero regulations that came into place in '09. He was beaatig Kimi yes, but then Kimi probably had lost all his motivation so he wasn't a good benchmark but he still won at spa (too bad we couldn't see what Massa could've done there). And in 2008 maybe the Ferrari F2008 was a lot better than people made it out to be, and Raikkonen sucked big time rather than Massa doing really good (with all due respect to Felipe).

All that said, I don't see why he should leave Ferrari. He's become a loyal number 2 to Alonso, and will regain some of his speed during the season. Most probably he won't be as bad as he was in oz. Ferrari (and Alonso) can't find a better 2nd driver than him.

[Gerhard Berger]

It was pretty obvious Massa immediately slowed down to let Alonso past once he was up on his tail; no discussion in there.

What a convincing argument!

There's no evidence that he did slow for Alonso. As for it looking pretty obvious, Massa was defending hard against Button into turn 12, which let Alonso get right on his tail. Massa then defended his position on the entry to turn 13, which compromised his exit, thus allowing Alonso to undercut him and overtake him into turn 14.

Please provide evidence or a reasoned argument that Massa slowed down to let Alonso through, rather than statements like "it was pretty obvious".

[FW17]

It was pretty obvious Massa immediately slowed down to let Alonso past once he was up on his tail; no discussion in there.

What a convincing argument!

There's no evidence that he did slow for Alonso. As for it looking pretty obvious, Massa was defending hard against Button into turn 12, which let Alonso get right on his tail. Massa then defended his position on the entry to turn 13, which compromised his exit, thus allowing Alonso to undercut him and overtake him into turn 14.

Please provide evidence or a reasoned argument that Massa slowed down to let Alonso through, rather than statements like "it was pretty obvious".

Smart thing to have done as FA gained 2 places but Ferrari lost none. Who ever took the decision did the right thing.

[flattyre]

I think what we really need to see are the onboards from both Massa and Alonso, to see if Massa did anything differently.

But, for the time being, it could either have been team orders or a legit passing move. Until we have enough 'evidence' we can't say that it was either of these, so all we can do is make an educated guess.

MY educated guess is that Massa let Alonso past, due to the reasons that other people have said. It looks like Massa slowed down a little too much, and he didn't attempt any kind of defence whatsoever...

[Gerhard Berger]

I think what we really need to see are the onboards from both Massa and Alonso, to see if Massa did anything differently.

But, for the time being, it could either have been team orders or a legit passing move. Until we have enough 'evidence' we can't say that it was either of these, so all we can do is make an educated guess.

MY educated guess is that Massa let Alonso past, due to the reasons that other people have said. It looks like Massa slowed down a little too much, and he didn't attempt any kind of defence whatsoever...

But Massa did defend into turn 13.

[Gerhard Berger]

It was pretty obvious Massa immediately slowed down to let Alonso past once he was up on his tail; no discussion in there.

What a convincing argument!

There's no evidence that he did slow for Alonso. As for it looking pretty obvious, Massa was defending hard against Button into turn 12, which let Alonso get right on his tail. Massa then defended his position on the entry to turn 13, which compromised his exit, thus allowing Alonso to undercut him and overtake him into turn 14.

Please provide evidence or a reasoned argument that Massa slowed down to let Alonso through, rather than statements like "it was pretty obvious".

Smart thing to have done as FA gained 2 places but Ferrari lost none. Who ever took the decision did the right thing.

Who says Ferrari are smart when it comes to strategy? Do you not remember what happened in Abu Dhabi?

[shelly]

I agree with others on the thread in thinking that all in all alonso is better driver than massa. I my opinion also schuey and kimi were stronger than massa.

I think also that the team was not that biased towards massa's teammate in the past as it is now. Indeed I think (no proofs) that massa was slightly favoured compared to his teammate in 2007 and 2008 (we must not forget that massa's manager surname is todt).

Now with alonso it is different for a number of factors, of which I think actual lower competitiveness of ferari car is as important as alonso personality.

I agree that immediate swap was he best team strategy move because it excluded the possibility for button to leave room to massa and forced his drive through, but my opionion (no proof) about it is it happened too fast for it to be a strategic move instead of a team order.

Finally I think that was it alonso in massa position, no smart strategic swap would have been put in place

[Gerhard Berger]

I agree that immediate swap was he best team strategy move because it excluded the possibility for button to leave room to massa and forced his drive through,

The problem with this theory is that they pitted Alonso the lap after (and before Massa) thus giving Button another opportunity to give the place back to Massa.

[shelly]

I agree that immediate swap was he best team strategy move because it excluded the possibility for button to leave room to massa and forced his drive through,

The problem with this theory is that they pitted Alonso the lap after (and before Massa) thus giving Button another opportunity to give the place back to Massa.

Agree with you: that proves agian that smart strategy moves where not on the menu.

[segedunum]

I agree with others on the thread in thinking that all in all alonso is better driver than massa. I my opinion also schuey and kimi were stronger than massa.

Well, you can say what you like about the ice cream eater, and his results versus Massa are a matter of some debate, but the bottom line is that he is still the only Ferrari World Champion thus far, post-Schumacher.

Personally, I feel that Massa has got a little more attention at Ferrari than he has deserved over the years and the loss of his political ally in Schumacher was a big problem to him I think. Had Schumacher still been loitering around at Ferrari then he and Alonso might have collided, but as it is Alonso has the free reign that he wants there. Bizarrely, Alonso still wants Massa to be there but if he is to make any headway he needs a much stronger team mate.

[Tamburello]

I think what we really need to see are the onboards from both Massa and Alonso, to see if Massa did anything differently.

But, for the time being, it could either have been team orders or a legit passing move. Until we have enough 'evidence' we can't say that it was either of these, so all we can do is make an educated guess.

MY educated guess is that Massa let Alonso past, due to the reasons that other people have said. It looks like Massa slowed down a little too much, and he didn't attempt any kind of defence whatsoever...

I still don't know how you are going to get 'team orders' across in the space of 1 turn straight after the guy is in a heated battle for position.

Massa was loose going into a turn and Alonso got him. He may have let the pass on him off without too much of a fight but then the car was a Ferrari after all.

[Maidel]

Well from what I saw massa slowed waited for button to move over and let him back past and alonso pulled along side. It was fairly obvious that it was a 'team' thing, there was plenty of time for the team to order it, the commentary team had been discussing it for 30 seconds before it happened so there was plenty of time for the team to order it.

[segedunum]

I think we can certainly agree that Massa did absolutely no defending of his position.

[Pup]

I agree that immediate swap was he best team strategy move because it excluded the possibility for button to leave room to massa and forced his drive through,

The problem with this theory is that they pitted Alonso the lap after (and before Massa) thus giving Button another opportunity to give the place back to Massa.

Agree with you: that proves agian that smart strategy moves where not on the menu.

Except Button would still have ended up behind Alonso. This year, the driver who pits first has the advantage.

[bot6]

Well, you can say what you like about the ice cream eater, and his results versus Massa are a matter of some debate, but the bottom line is that he is still the only Ferrari World Champion thus far, post-Schumacher.

Well, except for a certain Finn... Y'know, Kimi something... What's his name again?