Interlagos Safety Questioned!?

[andartop]

Really hard to see how someone can "doubt that Senna or any other F1 driver who lost their life to the sport would wish to see F1 stripped of it's thrills and challenges in the name of safety."

I would have thought that if a dead race driver could talk to us one of the first things they would ask would be to try and make sure that what happened to them will not happen again to someone else. And that's probably the best thing we could do to honour their memory.

Times change, and thankfully safety standards change as well. Motorsport is always going to be dangerous, but it is the FIA's duty to ensure all necessary measures are taken to reduce the possible risks to the degree possible with all the means available.

I'd much rather have a historic track layout changed - ideally without changing its character too much - than risk having more lives lost in vein. Just think of how many drivers had horrific accidents the last 15 years and just walked away with a few bruises. We could blame FIA for many things, but with regards to improving safety standards I think they have been doing a damn fine job, and I hope they continue doing just that.

[myurr]

@andartop - that sentence that I used is actually echoed in the rest of your post. By all means extend safety measures and do what you can to make sure that lives are not needlessly lost, but also recognise that motorsport is and always will be dangerous and do not needlessly lose the character of F1 in the name of health and safety.

I'm not against changing the layouts of tracks to make them safer where there is an unnecessary risk, but equally I believe there will always be an element of danger. I wouldn't want to see Eau Rouge reprofiled, or Monaco changed, or have the curva do cafe in Brazil neutered. Improve the crash barriers, put in run off where you can (without distancing the crowd too much from the track), and work as hard as you can to improve the safety of the cars themselves, but do not get rid of the character and challenge of motorsport.

[Alexpcenteno]

Notice that if Alonso looses control to the otherside of the track he would had crashed directly into the wall. He was lucky to hit first the tires in the inner part of the turn.

[imightbewrong]

At the risk of going off topic...

After the event Alonso admitted to seeing the waved yellow flags but wanted to gain an advantage over his competitors so did not lift - that meant he was going too fast to react to the debris. That was the revelation that made me dislike his racing ethics, as waved yellows mean marshals on track. Indeed if you watch closely you can see that one marshal has to step back off the track to avoid being hit.

I think this is the quote you are looking for:

It all went too quickly. From the third corner onwards, I had seen the yellow flags and the sign 'SC' telling me that the safety car was coming out, but at that moment, there were yellow flags all around the circuit. I was careful, but I didn't expect there to be as much debris. I couldn't avoid a tire in the middle of the track. Everything then happened very quickly. I remember hurtling towards the wall. The first impact was very hard.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns10972.html

[ESPImperium]

Interlagos is currently undergoing a series of changes, the pit complex is getting upgraded, to a standard more accepted by F1. The grandstand that meets the drivers at turn 4 is rumored to being taken down as the Reta Oposta is to be lengthened and Descida Do Lago will be put back almost 350m arround the swamp that is in the area behing Turn 4/5 and make the track longer to reduce the race distance to 60 laps.

The reason for this is that there is a proposed plan on the table for a new pit lane to be built simmilar to Silverstone world class facilities at Interlagos on the back straight where there is more space to build on.

[mx_tifoso]

And the neutering of F1 continues...

[Tamburello]

Really hard to see how someone can "doubt that Senna or any other F1 driver who lost their life to the sport would wish to see F1 stripped of it's thrills and challenges in the name of safety."

I would have thought that if a dead race driver could talk to us one of the first things they would ask would be to try and make sure that what happened to them will not happen again to someone else. And that's probably the best thing we could do to honour their memory.

Times change, and thankfully safety standards change as well. Motorsport is always going to be dangerous, but it is the FIA's duty to ensure all necessary measures are taken to reduce the possible risks to the degree possible with all the means available.

I'd much rather have a historic track layout changed - ideally without changing its character too much - than risk having more lives lost in vein. Just think of how many drivers had horrific accidents the last 15 years and just walked away with a few bruises. We could blame FIA for many things, but with regards to improving safety standards I think they have been doing a damn fine job, and I hope they continue doing just that.

In fact Senna, was on record as saying that the rule changes banning electronic aids for 1994 will cause accidents because nothing had been done to curb the speed of the cars.

[Formula None]

FIA proposes safer Interlagos layout:



But then Tilke got a hold of it:

[Alexpcenteno]

FIA imposed a suspension to the track until further review and inspection of what can be done to the corner. Until then all races will go with yellow flag in the corner of coffee (curva do café). Brazilians authorities speculate about a run-of area.

P.S. - I know you guys are worried with what f1 will become but you have to remember that interlagos is not just about f1 the track is used every single day and the corner of coffee must be safer for those people too. I know it sucks to see a beatiful challenging corner been torn apart but there are other needs that surpass F1. There wont be a chicane there because brazilians love the interlagos layout but be sure to see a ran-off are in that place just to avoid the cars from been tossed back to the middle of the track.

To end this discussion I just want to ask a question to you guys. Do you think that the rear-right tire been fitted facing the wrong way could be the cause of the crash?



Thanks.

[Lindz]

Cause? Well, a tire facing the wrong way certainly wouldn't help him keep control of the car, especially in the wet.

[Richard]

Tracks should be challenging and drivers should struggle to get around them . Run offs and protection should be designed to ensure drivers suffer least damage when they inevitably loose control.

Alsono's crash was because he was going too fast for the sight line. The current speed limit under SC rules would help reduce or prevent that crash. Could they improve the sightline with a little vertical reprofiling without affecting the character of the circuit?

[alelanza]

I'd say that before thinking of run offs and all that, a serious analysis should be conducted, anything less won't guarantee the cause (s) behind the accident are properly addressed. It seems they jumped from 'he died at this corner' to 'he died because of this corner' in just a few heartbeats. I'm not saying the corner is perfect, i've only watched f1 races there on the tv, but jumping to conclusions is never a good idea. I don't know antyhing about this particular racing series, but if it's nascar's equivalent of truck racing, then it should be well known that these cars are meant to race millimeters away from the walls and that by definition they'll bump back into the track after touching the walls. This means the safety needs to be built into the cars/safety gear and those should be able to keep the driver reasonably safe under most tboning scenarios. And again, i'm not saying this death was the car's fault, but it's just strange that this isn't even being considered. Do they even know what he died of? says head injuries, but how did he get those? what about helmet/belts/rollcage etc.? How about his crew? as Alex points out they managed to put a tyre in a way that it would cause very early hydroplanning, who knows what else they did?
Not long ago at a local track some amateurs were racing and had a decent shunt which turned into a big thing because the car's floor had seen makeshift repairs which caused the driver's seat to separate upon impact and because of that he suffered a lot more injuries than he should have. That's probably an extreme example, but shows that there are many reasons behind being injured in a car crash, some are nice and evident when you find the guy lying on the floor with the seat tied to his back, some others just aren't, but they need to be investigated nevertheless.
In any case, Alexpcenteno being you're in Brazil you can hopefully get some decent info for us, from where i stand all i see is 'driver is killed in new tamburello corner' and nothing else, so much for good journalism in this well connected world...

[FW17]

What happened last week is very sad. The profile of the curve is not to blame but cars bouncing back on to the racing line. This is not uncommon in F1 circuits with lack of runoff spaces and has happened in quiet a few race.

Mark Weber in Korea (F1's newest track) last year is the most recent example.

[Alexpcenteno]

alelanza,

This is the hospital statement on the drivers condition after exams: (google translate)

"Hospital Sao Luiz reports the pilot Gustavo Sondermann lodged at Morumbi at 14.25 Unit of 3 April 2011, after an accident during car race held at Interlagos Circuit.

Just yesterday, after clinical, neurological, and functional imaging, were found in the patient severe head trauma, brain hemorrhage and diffuse fracture of first cervical vertebra. Faced with the lesions, was completed by the medical staff that there was no indication for surgical treatment and the neurological condition was irreversible. Immediately began the investigation protocol of brain death (Law No. 9434 of February 6, 1997), which consists of two clinical trials performed by different teams and an examination of the graphical method, which is used transcranial Doppler to assess cerebral blood flow.

Today, April 4, 2011, the protocol was completed at 10:00 am and was declared brain dead patient.


Dr. Sebastian Cesar Vasconcellos

Clinical Director of the Hospital São Luiz - Morumbi Unit

Dr. Jorge Pagura

Neurosurgeon Unit, Hospital Sao Luiz Morumbi

Dr. Dino Altmann

Chief Medical Stock Car"

original - http://www.r2cpress.com.br/v1/2011/04/0 ... ondermann/


What happened was that the driver crash and went back into the track and got t-bone by another car. The driver received CPR and was taken by helicopter to the hospital. He had skull and cervical fracture. The car structure worked as planed and suffered only a fracture in one of the side bars but nothing very compromising to the car.

Thats all I know by now as they are not saying anything more.

There were speculations (not official in anyway - as it was said by a reporter who went to the hospital) about a bad use of the HANS device and that the crash was caused by the tire+rain+bump in the back of the car that got back to the track and got t-boned.

[alelanza]

Thanks for the info Alex, hopefully we'll get some info on the 'how' at some point. It sounds very strange to me that the car was in good shape yet his head was more or less smashed in. I wonder if the structure did a decent job at absorbing energy, it almost sounds like it was too rigid and shook the driver beyond what the HANS is able to take.