Bernie vs Todt on engine

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
andrew
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WilliamsF1 wrote:Jeremy Clarkson has an opinion on every car so what he says and doesn't say is irrelevant to a car. Top Gear is stand up comedy act with a car theme.
It's a load of bovine manure is what it is! Considering he doesn't even understand basic engineering principles (doesn't even know how a diff works!) it is laughable that he presents a car programme.

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Sebp
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Jeremy Clarkson wrote:You feed the exhaust of the car into the turbo. Then witchcraft happens and the car goes quicker.
I bet he knows alot more than he lets on. Top Gear is really immature, politically incorrect and features the best cars on the planet, therefore I love it. We only get rediculously stuck-up car shows in Germany presenting VW-Polos and the like.

Sayshina
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As far as inline 4's vs. V-6's, we saw a couple of years ago during the Indycar debate that chassis designers will nearly always prefer the V configuration. For that and a number of other reasons, these 2013 rules seem a bit forced to me, and I'm far from convinced they will ever be used.

I'm sure WB will make his claim here as he does in his engine thread that these engines are coming and even an act of god couldn't stop them, but I still have my doubts.

Personally, I think it's a fool who bets against Bernie. As I said in that other thread, recent history shows us that if Bernie really wants something, and he can get even 1 other party to go along with him, it generally doesn't matter what everybody else wants.

The real question to my mind is whether Bernie is really against these engines or just making noise to distract us from his true goal.

Oh, and whoever said that new teams are against the spirit of F1, huh? Are you aware of the history of F1?

Richied76
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andrew wrote:
WilliamsF1 wrote:Jeremy Clarkson has an opinion on every car so what he says and doesn't say is irrelevant to a car. Top Gear is stand up comedy act with a car theme.
It's a load of bovine manure is what it is! Considering he doesn't even understand basic engineering principles (doesn't even know how a diff works!) it is laughable that he presents a car programme.
The AA did a survey a couple of years ago and found that 80% of owners didnt know where there power steering fluid and break fluid tanks were and that they should be checked regularly and topped up as needed. I'm a carpenter....But i couldnt explain how to the inner workings of the lithum batterys of my Drill works. As WilliamsF1 said above...Its a stand up comedy show with a car theme. And i assure you Jeremy knows very well how a diff works...He's just like most of the 44million uk motorists....He doesnt care!
But as for his opinion, i would say a vast amount of people who are thinking about buying a new car, watch topgear for its comedic value, yet still go out...buy the mag... and get advise to a purchace. Even if its not his advise. Its all face value and trust. He has been on topgear since 1988.

Anyway....I think Bernie has more to worry about than loud engines! Fraud cases maybe?

CHT
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Sayshina wrote:
The real question to my mind is whether Bernie is really against these engines or just making noise to distract us from his true goal.
There is only 1 goal for Bernie, and that is $$$.

I reckon if F1 switches from V8 to 4's it will definitely loss its appeal for spectators due to the lack of roaring V8 noises. And that could potentially cost bernie hundreds million worth of hosting fee.

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djos
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Ashley wrote:But why don't they choose V6 engines instead of those 4 cyclinders???
Luca Di Motezemolo said that Ferrari would be keen on producing V6 engines.
I agree, why cant it be twin turbo 1.6ltr V6's like in the late 80's - better for packing up with a gear box too and can actually be a fully stressed chassis member like the current v8's!
"In downforce we trust"

astracrazy
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Re: Bernie vs Todt on engine

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CHT wrote:
Sayshina wrote:
The real question to my mind is whether Bernie is really against these engines or just making noise to distract us from his true goal.
There is only 1 goal for Bernie, and that is $$$.

I reckon if F1 switches from V8 to 4's it will definitely loss its appeal for spectators due to the lack of roaring V8 noises. And that could potentially cost bernie hundreds million worth of hosting fee.
I agree but for once although he is prob thinking of $$$$ i agree with him

chepoi
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Re: Bernie vs Todt on engine

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astracrazy wrote:
CHT wrote:
Sayshina wrote:
The real question to my mind is whether Bernie is really against these engines or just making noise to distract us from his true goal.
There is only 1 goal for Bernie, and that is $$$.

I reckon if F1 switches from V8 to 4's it will definitely loss its appeal for spectators due to the lack of roaring V8 noises. And that could potentially cost bernie hundreds million worth of hosting fee.
I agree but for once although he is prob thinking of $$$$ i agree with him
i disagree with Bernie lost million worth of hosting fee . I think ya'll agreed with me that all the hosting fee has been included in the agreement which is normally signed or renewed every 3 @ 5 years.

so this is not the case IMHO

Richied76
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On the other side of the argument though i bet if they were quieter there would be more tracks interested in hosting a race maybe? I remeber a 6 or 7 years ago the mention that the austrian A1 ring didnt like the noise and the locals complained and it was one of the reasons they didnt renew??? Very long time ago so not sure theres any truth in it. may have even been Hockingheim?

But it does go to show that, yes the fans may not like it, BUT the tracks might if they dont have to abide by noise regulations

donskar
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Re: Bernie vs Todt on engine

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To me the key point is: what will the new rules mean to the manufacturers? Can they even pretend there is some sort of trickle-down to their production cars? Ferrari builds no 4 cylinder engines. M-B builds few if any at all (none for sale in the USA). The 4 cylinder rule may lure VW in (I doubt it . . .) but will do nothing to keep M-B and Ferrari in.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

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djos
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donskar wrote:To me the key point is: what will the new rules mean to the manufacturers? Can they even pretend there is some sort of trickle-down to their production cars? Ferrari builds no 4 cylinder engines. M-B builds few if any at all (none for sale in the USA). The 4 cylinder rule may lure VW in (I doubt it . . .) but will do nothing to keep M-B and Ferrari in.
A 1.8 litre or 2.0ltr twin turbo V6 would have been far more appealing especially if they weren't crippled to only output 600hp! :cry:
"In downforce we trust"

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WhiteBlue
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djos wrote:
donskar wrote:To me the key point is: what will the new rules mean to the manufacturers? Can they even pretend there is some sort of trickle-down to their production cars? Ferrari builds no 4 cylinder engines. M-B builds few if any at all (none for sale in the USA). The 4 cylinder rule may lure VW in (I doubt it . . .) but will do nothing to keep M-B and Ferrari in.
A 1.8 litre or 2.0ltr twin turbo V6 would have been far more appealing especially if they weren't crippled to only output 600hp! :cry:
Merc produces tons of 4-cylinder engines from the A-class all the way up to the S-class. If they don't sell them in the USA it is a direct result of the market requirements. Everybody and his dog knows that Americans waste the most energy in the world by driving heavier and thirstier cars than any other people on this earth. They have done it for ages and rational debate will not change this. You have to make them feel it in the pocket to change something.

The new engines will have in excess of 800 hp in permanent dual torque mode. None of the electric peak power of KERS. Of course Bernie couldn't give a rat's ass what engines they run. It just suits him at this point in time to pick up any point of dissent between FOTA teams. So he publicly supports Ferrari. When I read about the great flocks of race promoters who have approached Bernie with deep fears about the new engine sound I fell on the floor rolling with laughter. Promoters have only one concern when they talk with Bernie. "How do I pay my ever increasing fee and how do I keep my GP". They would not loose one night of sleep over engines, believe me. The story was completely made up for the purpose of showing support for Ferrari.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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djos
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WhiteBlue wrote:
djos wrote: A 1.8 litre or 2.0ltr twin turbo V6 would have been far more appealing especially if they weren't crippled to only output 600hp! :cry:
Merc produces tons of 4-cylinder engines from the A-class all the way up to the S-class. If they don't sell them in the USA it is a direct result of the market requirements. Everybody and his dog knows that Americans waste the most energy in the world by driving heavier and thirstier cars than any other people on this earth. They have done it for ages and rational debate will not change this. You have to make them feel it in the pocket to change something.

The new engines will have in excess of 800 hp in permanent dual torque mode. None of the electric peak power of KERS. Of course Bernie couldn't give a rat's ass what engines they run. It just suits him at this point in time to pick up any point of dissent between FOTA teams. So he publicly supports Ferrari. When I read about the great flocks of race promoters who have approached Bernie with deep fears about the new engine sound I fell on the floor rolling with laughter. Promoters have only one concern when they talk with Bernie. "How do I pay my ever increasing fee and how do I keep my GP". They would not loose one night of sleep over engines, believe me. The story was completely made up for the purpose of showing support for Ferrari.
Seriously tho what are the chances of getting an always on KERS system? I thought that a mildy warmed up version of what we had now was approved due to dev and running costs?
"In downforce we trust"

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WhiteBlue
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djos wrote:Seriously tho what are the chances of getting an always on KERS system? I thought that a mildy warmed up version of what we had now was approved due to dev and running costs?
Dieter Rencken in Autosport+ reported on the plan to use dual torque instead of KERS. He is very realiable and Autosport uses the finest sources in the industry. I think you can take that one to the bank.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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djos
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Can you explain "dual torque" please, I'm not familiar with it?
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