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ESPImperium wrote:
Howver, id like to raise a couple more points;
A] Would it be fair for a driver that needs a repair to come into the pits to get the repair and start from the pit lane after the last car has gone past when the Safety Car takes the pack away from the red flag restart??
Yes. That driver would have pitted otherwise, so yes, it's fair. In Hamilton's case, he would have stopped from the race.
ESPImperium wrote:
B] If we are to have the pack in race order at a red flag restart, why not do the same after a safety car period like what happened pre 2010?? Yes it takes time to get this to happen, posibly another lap or two of a Safety Car period, but the way i see it is this. If the top 10 or 12 are in race order, why not release them and them only?? If there is a small pack a sector behind, why not tell them they can race from the next sector line??
I do prefer the simple approach, and the NASCAR red flag rule seems what I would like.
The red flag means that all competition must stop. This not only includes the drivers on the race track but also the pit crews. If the crew is working on repairing a car in the garage area then they too must stop work when the red flag is displayed.
No one gains any advantage, not one is unjustly penalized, everything just stops.
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.
1) Cars are to re-start in the order the were on the lap before the red flag. Meaning that back markers must take up their race positions behind the leaders.
2) A car can only maintain its grid position if no work has been carried out on it (except the fitting of tyre warmers as a safety measure).
3) Any car that has had any work done, such as tyre change, repair of body panels or adjustments to wing etc. must take up a position at the back of the grid (as would have happened if they had pitted under a safety car). Order of these "reworked" cars to be based on their relative positions prior to the stop.
4) Only exception to 2) and 3) above is in the case of extreme wet conditions due to storm, and that will only apply to change of tyres to wets.
5) Re-start is from behind the safety car but strict enforcement of gap between cars and full throttle is not allowed by any car until the leading car crosses the start line.
In this scenario Vettel, Alonso and Button could have continued their battle and we would not have been robbed.
Hamilton would have started at the back with any other car having had adjustments. (Tough for him in this case, but much fairer overall I think)
Tires shouldn't be allowed to be changed under red flag conditions unless it can be proven that it's a flat or leaking tire from running over debris. The end of the Monaco race was ruined by having nothing in the regs preventing that. I also believe that anything broken that can be replaced before the race is restarted should be allowed, like when they replaced the end plates on Lewis' car. I don't believe he should have been sent to the back due to repairs on the car because he was hit from behind and it wouldn't have been right to punish Lewis for someone hitting him. That should be allowed, body work is easily changed and can be a safety issue if not fixed. Tires however should not be replaced because that's a strategy move not a safety move, which is what a red flag is all about.
archiebald wrote:1) Cars are to re-start in the order the were on the lap before the red flag. Meaning that back markers must take up their race positions behind the leaders.
No, that's changing the race by removing back markers.
It should be as close as possible to preserving the race conditions when the red flag was shown, ie parc ferme. The parc ferme rules already allow adjustments for wet weather conditions.
Any work done on the cars would require a restart from the pit lane, that's already in the parc ferme rules. If the pit lane is closed, then the cars have to wait until the restart before they pit.
DaveKillens wrote:I do prefer the simple approach, and the NASCAR red flag rule seems what I would like.
The red flag means that all competition must stop. This not only includes the drivers on the race track but also the pit crews. If the crew is working on repairing a car in the garage area then they too must stop work when the red flag is displayed.
No one gains any advantage, not one is unjustly penalized, everything just stops.
If you think that what happend in Monaco was odd, watch the 2011 Daytona 200 motocycle race.
For folks that don't know what happened. The race was stopped by Dunlop due to riders crashing out with front tires overheating. The series uses a spec tire and Dunlop got it wrong for the race, practice temperatures were 20C cooler than race day and the heat generated on the oval section caused some very high speed incidents.
During the Red Flag period Team Latus Racing (privateer up against the Big boys)did a complete engine swap on Jason DiSalvo's Ducati when it let go on the red flag lap. Rules stated that only the frame cannot be changed, everything else is open. Bike with new engine then goes bcak out at the restart only to look like he still has problems. Watch to the end..
haháha..it seemed the mechanics were quite unsure about what was allowed and what had to be left alone....
the correct proceeedure is to have a FIA official for each car ,which they have anyways and have him stand by the car and looking and signing off repairs in the situation .to me this is a parc ferme situation.
New tyres is just rediculous.
Why does everyone seem to forget passing at Monaco is very difficult let alone with only 6 laps left. Massa was of line on just lap 32 and put it into the wall due to lack of grip because of marbles. now multiply those marbles by 2 and thats what it would have been like at the restart.... so the result would have been the same or a bunch of broken body work because someone tried to pass and put it into the wall enough said
I dont know, I think the safety is exagerated today. Surely I dont want to see anyone hurt, but racing is risky and drivers have to be able to decide what to do by themselves/with the team. Tires are too bad? Its raining? Then go to pit and change, dont keep waiting authorities decide for you. (I agree with someone who said red flag should mean no service on cars, except tire change if it start raining.)
I also hate the way tracks now are all low or medium velocity, no more fast curves. Like that pitiful chicane at the last curve in Barcelona, I am angry every lap when they pass there, remembering Villeneuve passing Schumi on the outside there some years ago.
That stands are in the way? Change that, the price for doing that will be much less than what is expent in cars development every year. It makes much more sense than expending that money on cars only. Whats the point of having ultra fast cars if there is nowhere to play with them?
Or Hockenheim... that track was wonderful (even with the three chicanes). Now its just another one of the medium/slow tracks, no more problem deciding for a high speed setup for straights or a low speed setup for stadium...
Meanwhile, in Interlagos they are changing the last curve/straight area after a second death happened there in stockcars in three years. Apparently they´re doing the right thing, moving the wall away from the track instead of adding a chicane (great, but I still miss a lot the old amazing track there).
