Theft ????

[Hudsonhawk.]

http://www.feedmef1.com/html/modules.ph ... e&sid=3337



Whose secrets are they ????[/quote]

[dumrick]

Oh, yeah, I guess all Ferrari's engineers are born and breastfed at Ferrari and never knew any other company, then?

That's bullshit, Ferrari's dominance was mainly due to chassis development for a single driver and tyre development for one single chassis. This development strategies usually lead to fast and high sucess rates but also in the long term for long periods of counter-cycle performance. They are now in the wrong side of the cycle and what causes today's problems are the factors that lead to past dominance, what's the point on bitching around?

[DaveKillens]

Industrial espionage is part of Formula One, all teams are aware that it happens, and they all try to protect their intellectual properties. For instance, when Heidfeld had an injury last year and missed a few races at Williams, they did not allow him to return to his regular driving duties at the end of the season. Instead, because he was going to another team, he was taken out of the loop, and learned nothing about Williams from that point forward.
How very interesting, last year I was sure Ferrari's main problem was the tires, that Bridgestone had nothing as competitive as the Michelins. If some of their competitors made a few gains at Ferrari's expense, it really made no difference. Toyota still finished behind behind Ferrari in the constructor's points.
To me, this is a case of Ferrari trying to blame someone else for their own dismal showing.

[mini696]

I dont think Ferrari are blaming anyone... They are just stating that, they lost key personal to big teams, and these people made it clear that Ferraris advantage came a lot from their aero.

They showed the rival teams how Ferrari gained the advantage, and now the other teams understand the issues and have caught up/

[West]

Yup, the walrus nose was a huge success

[m3_lover]

They just can not take the fact that they got beat fair and square.

[ginsu]

Sounds like Ferrari is 'flip-flopping', as they were adamantly blaming the tires and solely the tires for their lack of pace in 2005. It's interesting to see that they've changed their story after the start of this year. Looks like Ross Brawn doesn't want to accept responsibility. Although, I can kind of understand in his case as he has previously said, 'I don't know why we're fast' when schumie got pole last year.

I don't think they really know what's wrong, and they're searching for excuses.

[Tp]

Sounds like Ferrari is 'flip-flopping', as they were adamantly blaming the tires and solely the tires for their lack of pace in 2005....... I don't think they really know what's wrong, and they're searching for excuses.

I understand the point you are making and it does seem strange to hear hear Ross Brawn saying "Three key losses contributed to the demise of Ferrari's dominance" , but you have to say the poor performance last year was due to Bridgestone producing incompetent tyres. The F2005 was a great car but it was let down by rubbish tyres. And that's why I think they lost the Driver and Constructors' Championship. Losing one or two key members will not cause Ferrari to lose the title.

[MIB]

Why cant you think that it might be because of the hard work of the other teams that they closed the gap. Is it possible that the only team with good engineers and good ideas is Ferrari?
There is an old saying in Colombia that comes to my head: "Everything a poor man has must be stolen"

[manchild]

...The F2005 was a great car but it was let down by rubbish tyres. And that's why I think they lost the Driver and Constructors' Championship. Losing one or two key members will not cause Ferrari to lose the title.

In the first half of the 2005 season Ferrari confirmed officialy that Bridgestone is not to be blamed so I guess F2005 was crappy.

[RH1300S]

If you look at the relative pace of the Bridgstone teams last season, either the others got faster or Ferrari got slower.

[DaveKillens]

In Formula One it's a constant race to improve. If you don't improve on a constant basis, your competitors will leave you behind. Last season everyone got thrown a wild card, with the tire rule mandating just one set for qualifying and entire race. And yes, all the teams with Michelin had an advantage because their accumulated testing on that tire gave them an overwhelming advantage over just Ferrari and Bridgestone. Was it fair? In some way, it wasn't. But then again, Ferrari and Bridgestone created this problem all on their own by being exclusive to each other. So personally, I felt absolutely no sympathy, they harvested what they had sown.
Other teams improved more than Ferrari did, and it showed itself all year when Ferrari just did not enjoy the dominance they previously enjoyed. Well, that's racing, no one is guaranteed anything, it has to come by out-performing your competitors on the track.
When it comes to publicly assigning blame, then it suddenly becomes very political, and all about trying to manipulate the public perception. I don't know how many times I've seen a car retire with a blown engine, and to later read in the press release that it was due to something definitely not associated directly with the engine supplier. Hey, you don't crap on a major partner in public. And more than ever Ferrari want and need Bridgestone to remain a friendly and supportive partner.
It's true that Toyota did get their hands on some Ferrari engineers under shady circumstances, it does reek of industrial espionage. I believe that case is still in the courts right now. But racing engineering data is time sensitive, it ages quickly, and become obsolete in just a few months. Toyota got hold of supposed ex-Ferrari secrets over a year and a half ago, and despite that, they still finished behind Ferrari in the manufacrurers' points race. Maybe it was a setback for Ferrari, but it sure wasn't major.
But it's much more politicaly convenient to point the finger at someone else, especially when Toyota and Bridgestone are now teamed up, and both are Japanese teams. Ferrari don't want to piss off Bridgestone, who could easily switch their loyalties to Toyota if provoked.

[Tp]

Yeah I think you're right there Dave

In the first half of the 2005 season Ferrari confirmed officialy that Bridgestone is not to be blamed so I guess F2005 was crappy.

Explain the race at Imola 2005?

A quote from Rory Bryne when asked why the car worked so well then..."It was all down to ambient temperature, race day was much cooler than everyone expected; in those unpredicted conditions the Bridgestone rubber worked better than the Michelins." So if all through the season Bridgestone produced a tyre that had similar pace as in Imola the Constructor's may not have gone to Renault.

If you still don't believe me...
.....another quote from Steve Matchett "The 2005 Ferrari was mostly a fine, machine let down by rubbish tyres."

[Tp]

Jeez, it's hard work sticking up for Ferrari!

[Ciro Pabón]

I believe Ferrari. I am a firm believer that people is essential for the correct development of a company and that people is not interchangeable.

I also agree with the people that pointed out that tires play an enormous role in F1 and that probably Bridgestone must have been thinking a lot about his "one-car maker is enough" policy.

Anyway, let's believe what Ferrari says for a moment: three key people left. It remains a question: why did they leave?

We know that Newey left McLaren because he was fed up with "management". This could be the case. But we also know that Fiat is not doing well financially speaking.

There is an old saying in Colombia that comes to my head: "Everything a poor man has must be stolen"

Maybe. Briatore knows how to organize something, I agree, and is funny to blame Ferrari when we should be praising (and learning from) Renault. But we in Colombia have a much more recent saying (attributed to a colombian ex-world welterweight champion) that says:

"What I know about money is this: it is better to be rich than poor"