Mclaren to suffer the most with EBD banned?

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CHT
CHT
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 05:24

Mclaren to suffer the most with EBD banned?

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Prior to Australia, MP4-26 will really off the pace at pre-season testing. And then they surprise everyone at Australia, with the RBR style EBD.

I am just wondering, how much of MP4-26 pace today is actually relying on the EBD?

bizadfar
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Joined: 03 Jan 2007, 15:51

Re: Mclaren to suffer the most with EBD banned?

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1.125151231 per lap.

Seriously?

Robbobnob
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Joined: 21 May 2010, 04:03
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Mclaren to suffer the most with EBD banned?

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I had myself wondered this, in particular with the Mercedes engine'd cars that they ran exposed exhausts rather than the covered of the red bull.

this posed to me questions of exhaust temperature, and post Horners remarks that the RedBull doesnt take advantage of the Hot blowing, that it seems any gain Mclaren gained from their solution to redbull will be nullified, extending the gaps between the teams
"I continuously go further and further learning about my own limitations, my body limitations, psychological limitations. It's a way of life for me." - Ayrton Senna

CHT
CHT
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 05:24

Re: Mclaren to suffer the most with EBD banned?

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I am kind of surprise to hear Lewis and Button complaining about the lack of down force at Valencia, when 2 weeks ago button was still feeling so bullish about challenging RB.

Would this be due to the change in engine mapping? perhaps, they are unable to run their qualifying engine mapping throughout the race due to higher fuel consumption of the merc engine?

i70q7m7ghw
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Joined: 12 Mar 2006, 00:27
Location: ...

Re: Mclaren to suffer the most with EBD banned?

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I am almost certain it's going to hit McLaren hardest out of the top 3. Ferrari seemed to be set to benefit, essentially swapping places with McLaren. Red Bull look to benefit the most as their closest title rivals move down the grid.

Everyone was hoping/complaining this would set Red Bull back and create a 'second championship', I think it's probably sealed the deal for Red Bull.

astracrazy
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Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: Mclaren to suffer the most with EBD banned?

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on the bbc forum they interviewed newey and he commented that renault will be the biggest losers.

Well Macca gained a lot of time from using Red Bull style exhausts. This means Red Bull gain from that way as well. So who's to say that if won't effect red bull just as much or if not more as there car was designed with that style in mind - with macca it was a last minute route change.

marcush.
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Joined: 09 Mar 2004, 16:55

Re: Mclaren to suffer the most with EBD banned?

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Newey is putting forward a straight comment? I know him speaking in words like probably ...you could argue ....etc..
All I know is Neweays troops have not even looked into the concept of renault by his own admission...so let´s see if he´s right in this.

Renault thinks they have less to lose than others....

so dumb question from my side: what about having a contact patch on the throttle and when releasing the throttle fully -lifting the foot from the pedal-you instantly get retarded timing and hot blowing of the exhaust.The throttle would return to fully closed very very slowly by a mechanical/ hydraulic damper .So nothing in the software causing the hot blowing or blowing at all.
As long as the foot is on the pedal -in contact you still have the full range of throttle application and can feather it if needed ...

i70q7m7ghw
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Joined: 12 Mar 2006, 00:27
Location: ...

Re: Mclaren to suffer the most with EBD banned?

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I think that's completely missing the point. The engine maps are being banned because there is reason to believe they are illegal. Trying to find a loophole in the rules banning them is almost certain to land any team a real penalty.

CHT
CHT
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 05:24

Re: Mclaren to suffer the most with EBD banned?

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Diesel wrote:I think that's completely missing the point. The engine maps are being banned because there is reason to believe they are illegal. Trying to find a loophole in the rules banning them is almost certain to land any team a real penalty.
There is actually no loop hole in the rules on this one. Is is simply an innovation which FIA decide to ban it. Many people believe that the motivation behind FIA introducing the ban so late into the season is simply to stop RBR from running away with the championship.

i70q7m7ghw
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Joined: 12 Mar 2006, 00:27
Location: ...

Re: Mclaren to suffer the most with EBD banned?

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CHT wrote:
Diesel wrote:I think that's completely missing the point. The engine maps are being banned because there is reason to believe they are illegal. Trying to find a loophole in the rules banning them is almost certain to land any team a real penalty.
There is actually no loop hole in the rules on this one. Is is simply an innovation which FIA decide to ban it. Many people believe that the motivation behind FIA introducing the ban so late into the season is simply to stop RBR from running away with the championship.
No innovation I'm afraid, the system is believed to be illegal and rather go down the messy route of protests etc. the FIA has decided to just tighten the regulations. The alternative was the Cosworth powered teams protest the legality of the engine maps, and there's a strong case. I don't think anyone wants to see the championship result altered.
“We are on the verge of issuing a note to the teams to give them a list of things that they can change when they connect their computers, but that will be a very limited list.

“A team can't have a base map in the ECU that is only good for a few laps. If you want to use it, you have to use it for the whole race.

“There isn't anything to prevent them from exploiting the use of their exhaust gasses – providing those exhaust gasses are there for the genuine reason of engine combustion.”

When asked if all teams will be equally affected by the changes, Whiting replied:

“It is not for us to say whether or not one team will be penalised more than another. If depends how extreme they're going. I've certainly seen evidence of maps from a number of teams that are extreme.”

“Our argument is that there is a strong case to suggest they are illegal,” Whiting continued. “Ultimately, the stewards will decide.”
It continues to suprise me how people label this as innovation. Blowing the diffuser with exhaust gas to make it more efficient is innovative yes, but it's not being banned. Turning the engine in to a leaf blower when it's not sending power to the wheels, that's not innovative.

This is a similar situation to when flexing rear wings appeared. The FIA introduce slot gap separators mid season to prevent such flex. They could have chosen to investigate every team and retroactively apply penalties for those they deemed illegal.

CHT
CHT
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 05:24

Re: Mclaren to suffer the most with EBD banned?

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Diesel wrote:
CHT wrote: It continues to suprise me how people label this as innovation. Blowing the diffuser with exhaust gas to make it more efficient is innovative yes, but it's not being banned. Turning the engine in to a leaf blower when it's not sending power to the wheels, that's not innovative.

Why is that not an innovation when it clearly give the cars an added down force around corners, and other teams are copy the idea?

I thought EBD will be banned at Silverstone? No?

i70q7m7ghw
49
Joined: 12 Mar 2006, 00:27
Location: ...

Re: Mclaren to suffer the most with EBD banned?

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No EBD will not be banned from Silverstone.
“There isn't anything to prevent them from exploiting the use of their exhaust gasses – providing those exhaust gasses are there for the genuine reason of engine combustion.”
Everyone just seems to be jump on the band wagon here assuming the FIA is banning the latest formula 1 must have. That is not the case, they are just adjusting the rules to make it more clear what is and isn't allowed. Their argument for doing this is that the advanced engine maps used exclusively for generating additional exhuast flow from the engine to enhance aerodynamics is potentially illegal, and there is nothing to stop someone launching a formal protest. Without this rule change, it's likely someone will protest, and it seems they would stand a good chance of 'winning' the protest, at which point your guess is as good as mine as to what would happen to the current championship standings.

andrew
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Joined: 16 Feb 2010, 15:08
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Re: Mclaren to suffer the most with EBD banned?

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This is all speculation. The best thing to do is wait and see what transpires.

i70q7m7ghw
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Joined: 12 Mar 2006, 00:27
Location: ...

Re: Mclaren to suffer the most with EBD banned?

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It's not speculation, my quotes are from Charlie Whiting.
Last edited by Steven on 28 Jun 2011, 12:22, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed bickering between you two from here on

astracrazy
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Joined: 04 Mar 2009, 16:04

Re: Mclaren to suffer the most with EBD banned?

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I think in p1 or p2 (valencia) vettel was running a map which will be used for silverstone - be interesting if we can see how much slower he was

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