Audi behind 4cylinder Turbo's, and its demise.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

So it appears that the move to go for the proposed Turbo 4 cylinder motors in 2013 was motivated at attracting VW AG, and in turn Audi.
They wavered and then scoffed the idea and it now appears Mercedes, Ferrari and Cosworth were more pro V6 than anything else.

Newey's sentiments also can not have gone down too well in the corridors of power at Ingolstadt and Wolfsburg respectively.

The big driver behind that was Audi. They said they would come into the sport if there was a four-cylinder turbo, and that's what everyone agreed in order to get Audi in. They subsequently decided that they won't bother after all, thank you very much, and we were lumbered with a four-cylinder turbo.

I have to say reading that, it appears Red Bulls nose may have been placed out of joint somewhat by Audi and VW's lackadaiscal attitude. With designs on being manufacturer backed you can see why.
Still, and it has to be said Audi's loss is F1's gain if it means V6 power with 14 to 16k rev limits.

http://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/sto ... MP=OTC-RSS

[astracrazy]

it all seems a bit silly to me. Perhaps some weak individuals in the background giving in to such demands.

yes we want engine suppliers, but do we want to ruin the sport for it? Clearly isn't the route f1 wanted to take because they have since back tracked on it.

[wesley123]

I dont understand VW AG right here, they run a V6 turbo in the back of their R18, they can take this as a base and convert it to a gasoline, then they have a reliable, legal, powerfull engine. The only downside is it wil be overweight at first.

Anyway, if audi will join formula 1 they will trow in everyhing right now to win at first, these guys have enough knowledge of reliable engines and also powerful engines. So if they join they will go for wins on their first try, unless the constructors chassis is crap of course.

[andrew]

What?! You mean it wasn't Ferrari?!

I have been mislead!

Makes sense though if the I4 was aimed at attracting a manufacturer who then lost interest, to revert back to a V6 which the engine manufacturers seem to prefer.

[donskar]

So Audi was to blame?! What? Wait! It was all Ferrari's fault; just ask WB. He KNOWS the inside poop. . . .

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

it all seems a bit silly to me. Perhaps some weak individuals in the background giving in to such demands

Makes perfect sense to me. Mercedes and Ferrari along to a lesser extent Renault(umm-ing and ahh-ing over its F1 commitment) Need a fourth manufacturer. Beating Cosworth gives no prestige, as good as those guys may be.
They were willing to cede some technical preference in exchange for Audi(or VW group appendage)presence in the sport.

I dont understand VW AG right here, they run a V6 turbo in the back of their R18, they can take this as a base and convert it to a gasoline, then they have a reliable, legal, powerfull engine.

Because if they did that they would get smashed by Mercedes HPE and Ferrari.
A V6 Turbo requiring 14-16k Revs will be a much different beast to the R18 current Audi Diesel 3.7litre. Different fuel. Over twice the capacity of the proposed V6.
Requires to rev beyond the TDI cars 8000 rpm(unsourced will confirm but it could be less!).

Anything less than new engine architecture will mean trouble to anyone attempting to build a 2014 spec F1 turbo.

Finally, I have to say VW really should have committed, or at least made an apology of sorts to not only Red Bull, but also F1 in general given the concessions and environment created for them to enter.
Smacks of incredible arrogance.

[bettonracing]

This might sound a bit conspiracy theorist, but I put nothing past powerhouse corporations - especially one that has been making aggressive (aka hostile) business moves over the past decade or two...

I wonder if the gentleman's agreement (and subsequent withdrawal) was a sinister attempt by VAG to dull the interest in F1 - in turn making sportscar racing the more attractive sport?... "Just get them to put the regulations in place & then withdraw our support".

Ok, that sounded a lot conspiracy theorist, but it's not that farfetched.

Regards,

Kurt

P.S. I drive a VAG product and effin love it.

[donskar]

bettonracing wrote:

Ok, that sounded a lot conspiracy theorist, but it's not that farfetched.

Yes, it really is that farfetched. I prefer we blame it all on Enzo Ferrari. Dead guys need all the media attention they can get.

[andrew]

bettonracing wrote:

Ok, that sounded a lot conspiracy theorist, but it's not that farfetched.

Yes, it really is that farfetched. I prefer we blame it all on Enzo Ferrari. Dead guys need all the media attention they can get.

Actually it would be Enzo Ferrari's parents. How dare they breed a child who would go onto found a car company!

bettonracing - compared with some of the theories that we were told over the engine issue, that is the most plausible one I have seen so far. I don't think it is too far fetched to be classed as stupid.

[RacingManiac]

it all seems a bit silly to me. Perhaps some weak individuals in the background giving in to such demands

Makes perfect sense to me. Mercedes and Ferrari along to a lesser extent Renault(umm-ing and ahh-ing over its F1 commitment) Need a fourth manufacturer. Beating Cosworth gives no prestige, as good as those guys may be.
They were willing to cede some technical preference in exchange for Audi(or VW group appendage)presence in the sport.

I dont understand VW AG right here, they run a V6 turbo in the back of their R18, they can take this as a base and convert it to a gasoline, then they have a reliable, legal, powerfull engine.

Because if they did that they would get smashed by Mercedes HPE and Ferrari.
A V6 Turbo requiring 14-16k Revs will be a much different beast to the R18 current Audi Diesel 3.7litre. Different fuel. Over twice the capacity of the proposed V6.
Requires to rev beyond the TDI cars 8000 rpm(unsourced will confirm but it could be less!).

Anything less than new engine architecture will mean trouble to anyone attempting to build a 2014 spec F1 turbo.

Finally, I have to say VW really should have committed, or at least made an apology of sorts to not only Red Bull, but also F1 in general given the concessions and environment created for them to enter.
Smacks of incredible arrogance.

Don't see why they need to apologize....governing bodies bait OEMs to racing all the time. How much to bend over backward to court some OEM entirely depends on how badly the governing body wants them. In the end its OEM's call to see if it aligns with what they want out of racing. In VAG's case they've pretty much decided that something that can relate better to production car is more worthwhile, so its Le Mans and WRC for them...

[WhiteBlue]

That is the opinion of one man who also has vested interests. I'm pretty sure that Renault, the FiA and many teams were in favour as well. The I4 is more powerful in a fuel restricted formula which should have pleased many teams. This whole topic is rather speculative as we don't have quotes by other teams.

[andrew]

Well here's a link witha nice quote from Mr haug on the matter.

Also note that it states a letter was sent from the teams to charlie Whiting expressing their support for the V6 engine format.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92664

I think it is safe to say that the V6 is the engine of choice for those in F1.

The Audi thing makes sense. No point in pressing ahead with plans to attract an uninterested party.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Don't see why they need to apologize....governing bodies bait OEMs to racing all the time. How much to bend over backward to court some OEM entirely depends on how badly the governing body wants them. In the end its OEM's call to see if it aligns with what they want out of racing. In VAG's case they've pretty much decided that something that can relate better to production car is more worthwhile, so its Le Mans and WRC for them...

But this late in the game, leaving fellow OEMs waiting?

[xpensive]

I think it was the rather dramatic loss of Toyota, Honda and BMW, which prompted signals to another big-time manufacturer?

Whatever MrT saw in this strategy is difficult to fathom, or was he just influenced by his French status?

[alelanza]

Well, everyone knew VAG was one of the main targets for the new engine no? so the Audi reference is more or less the same thing, just put into more extreme words by Newey.

That is the opinion of one man who also has vested interests...

And that's why he waited until the I4 was out and the V6 was in to give his declarations. How clever is that.....